Are white tail gears out yet and how much?

[rappyfly]

Open tail gear is changing from black gear to gery and what is the next color?

I was our flying my fury ball EX today and did some thing "wild" and heared some thing like "kakakakaaaa." Heli went piro crazy, cut hold and did a piro-flip auto under emergency within 30 feet hight. As quote by one of best pilot "it was one of the most amazing save he saw."

I have the gear replced by Chris at Minair right before Toledo show, and has about 25 flights. I use light tail blade and did not use balde to cut some wood stick while at the field so it shall stay. Am I right?

Any way, I know the black one is not trusted. Now I am showing and proving you the gery gears are garbage too. I hope all Minair guys use open box shall fly gentle and safe.

If anyone make better gears I will definitely buy them and sure you will make good profit.

D

http://www3.sympatico.ca/davidchu/DSCN1686.JPG
http://www3.sympatico.ca/davidchu/DSCN1689.JPG
http://www3.sympatico.ca/davidchu/DSCN1690.JPG

[kthane]

I'd replace those gears, they look kinda worn :arggg:

[DanW]

Your pics give me hope for the grey gears since the gears did not fail but lost teeth. Looks like a gear mesh issue for those.

Thanks
Dan

[EricLarson]

rappyfly, how was the gear mesh? Did you ever adjust it?

That will definitely happen if the gear mesh is loose and you are running a 601 gyro. It is just like the crown gear. If the mesh is set on the "loose" side you will take teeth off of the crown gear and it looks exactly like that.

Because the gear is not broken, it does not look like a failure. When I have seen gear failures they break.

Henry had a set do exactly the same thing in Huntsville. It sounded just like a crown gear going out. It started to click then it made a gear grinding sound. He flew the crap out of it till they finally stripped out and he did a piro auto on in. He thought the crown gear was skipping, but as it turned out it was the tail gears. After taking it over we realized that the mesh was loose and that was what caused the problem. He replaced the gears and reset the mesh in his other box and has been beating the crap out of them since. Believe me when I say that if H.C. can not break it, it is VERY strong :D He is one of the most aggressive and best pilots I know.

The black gears definitely had a manufacturing problem. That looks to be solved. With the number of gears out there, they sure seem to be working very well. With that said, anything on the model can and probably will fail at some point. I have seen some crazy stuff fail on all brands of models. These gears are plastic and in the open so there are positives and negatives. On the plus side it is easy to inspect and know if adjustment and or gear replacement if necessary. The box is also much more efficient. On the negative, the gears are subject to FOD.

I am sure glad there was no damage done. You can just order a replacement set of gears and put them in their and you will be good to go in short order. Again, I am sorry it happened to you and also sorry that is does not sound like you trust the gears. I have been very happy with mine and I sure like the new tail box. As far as trusting the gears, well I trust them as much as any other part on the helicopter.

[EricLarson]

kthane,

Dude I just noticed your signature..... that put a smile on my face :lol: and aint that the truth!

[rappyfly]

Let me clearify this, I had black gears on it but when I had a chance to change them to new style, I and other friend sent it in to get it replaced @ n/c.

Now, it become user problems not manufacture error. Dont tell me who and how aggreessive the best of the best fly on it. I dont buy that kind of statement or claim "If I dont break it, you should not", neither the demo video.

Thank you.

[EricLarson]

? I did not follow your post. I was just getting to the probable cause of the stripped gears. The question still remains, did you check the gear mesh after a flight or two and how was it? It may have been good, but if it was loose then that is what probably caused the failure.

There are other things that can cause it also though. Running the gain too high in the GY601 will damage the crown gear and or possibly the tail gears. Only around 36-40% is about right. That is just one other option.

You said "Now I am showing and proving you the gery gears are garbage too. I hope all Minair guys use open box shall fly gentle and safe." to make such a broad statement, there needs to be more info. If there is a problem that is the only way to get to the bottom of it.

If you did not check and / or readjust the gear mesh that is not a big deal, but it would lead me to believe the gear mesh was too loose. Anyway, more info would be nice.

[rappyfly]

I do believe that requiring a constant checking or adjustment is defeat the purpose of the new stuff. When this assembly is put together, it shall not fail and have long service interval. Like the crown gear, I never readjust of re-inspect it once installed on the heli until "I" damage it. If more inspection is needed on the gears, do you trust it? I only believe that the gear is not strong enough for what I had doing. I had been fly the same routine with good result when I had it back from Chris except Saturday flying.

Just best wish to everyone with this gear. I am glad, the only damage is two gears otherwise I might ask for $$$$$$ & I will use old close box for now.

[Russ McC]

I will probably regret getting involved in this one but this is crazy and I can’t just let it go.

Rappyfly, I understand how you can be disappointed when something does not last but machines will tell you when they are not right or are not being used correctly if you will just look and listen. Part of looking is inspecting, especially shortly after installing a new assembly, especially when it is a high stress drive component. So you think it’s reasonable to just put the thing (possibly dangerous experimental toy flying machine) together, close your eyes, plug your ears, cross your fingers and fly it tell it flies apart and burns in! Your crazy, and you’re not taking you role/responsibilities to your self, your friends at the field, the machine and the hobby seriously!

Trust? I only trust these things to work properly when I have checked and know that they are assembled properly and are still in proper adjustment and then only when they are operated within there limits. All of these things can be seen and heard if you will look and listen. Even then things can go wrong but at least you would be doing what you could to prevent problems. By the look of those gears your gain was too high or the mesh was to loose or you slammed the tail to hard one to many times or all of the above. It is possible that the gears where loose and you did not do anything to cause this but checking would/could have prevented it. It is also possible you are a pilot who flies his chopper in a way where the machine is begging for mercy during the hole flight/flights tell it finally breaks because you’re not listening. Would that mean the gears are defective or to weak? I would call that pilot error.

Eric is just trying to help you learn how to get the best out of this product regardless who you want to blame for this failure. You need to learn from this so you can lower the chance it will happen to you again. You are free to come on hear and bash Min Air’s product as well as the people who are hear trying to help you but like always this will just drive all the most knowledgeable and skilled people away leaving no one to give good advice when you need help :shock:

[3DME]

Hello

I was just at Min Air and I had Chris change my gears also. It took 5 min and when he re-appeared the first thing he said was

"you will notice a whiteish material on the gears after a flight or two, this is normal. You will need to re-adjust the mesh at that time and periodicly check and adjust the mesh. It should have very little play but be smooth and not notchy."

This makes perfect sense and I would have done this even without the specific instructions from Chris. I have a hard time believing the someone would not check the condition of the new grey gears after having problems with the black ones. I have this habit of constantly checking over the common service/problem areas, even on other peoples machines. Just to say I am totaly supprised that any helicopter stays together with the flying these days. It is a miracle every time they come back in one piece.

If you dont check your machine for yourself or for the machine, check it for the other people at the field.

Mike

[WayneBrown]

I'll trade you a dlosed gear box for your open gear box if that's what you'd prefer to fly with.

[3DME]

Hello

I also have a closed tail box. It has never been assembled. I bought an Extreme kit with the old tail box, also bought the new tail box so I left the closed tail box in the bag and used the open box. I would be willing to trade also or I will sell for 100.00.

[DavidH]

I have been flying MA helis for over 10 years. It has always been my routine to periodically check the mesh on gears. I check the clutch pinion to main gear, front pinion to crown gear, tail gear mesh. Even the metal gear box, I take the box off and adjust the mesh after a few flights when the gears are new. With the metal gears the grease needs to be changed in the box after the new gears have been flown several flights. This is to remove all the shaved metal that has came off the gears.
The new open gear box is not maintnance free, but it seems to be close to it. When the gears are new, the mesh will need to be checked and adjusted after the first few flights.

David

[MinAirChris]

Hi Rappyfly

Sorry to hear of your problem but glad you are a good enough pilot to get it down un-scathed. I will be glad to replace those gears for you FOC. PM me with an address and I'll get them out to you ASAP.

This incident should be a flag to all that this box is no different than any other in that it has to be kept properly maintained. This of course is not your fault Rappyfly as there was nothing to tell you that anything needed to be done...for that please accept my appologies, and believe that we didn't know and certainly would have mentioned it in the literature if we did. We are learning too.

For the record, we are finding that the gears do need to be kept properly meshed.

This is done by removing the two 1.5mm setscrews that hold the input shaft into the case. Once removed, re-apply blue locktite to them and re-insert them to the point where they just "touch" the inner bearing spacer. The mesh is best set so that at the point of least resistance in rotation there is just a slightly perceptable "click" as you wiggle one of the shafts back and forth. In other areas of the rotation, the gears will likely feel a little tight. This is o.k. as the gears will "seat in" after a flight or two. When you tighten the two retaining setscrews back in, sequence them back and forth just a little at a time. They do not need to be tightened very far to do their job and overtightening them will preload the inner bearings causing notchiness.

Hope this helps some

Chris

[rappyfly]

I was expecting more negative feedbacks to conclude the failure is user error side & it is my responsibility for what happened before any positive response from Minair.

If you remember, I was the first person to pin the fury TT in March 2003 after a TT failure. I also got a lot negative response on what I had done to fix the problem completely from I was bashing fury or the company to I simply weakened the TT. Pls look at what kind of TT we have today and does it fail anymore? I never got any note from anyone saying "thanks."

I am a firm believer that gears are at fault, period. And more to come.

Thanks Chris's offer to replace these gears, but I prefer the old style one now. I predict a new design or material gear is on the way. Believe it or not.

Thank you

[EricLarson]

Hi Rappyfly, I don't think you will find too much negetivity or blame here. I for one want to help people out and find solutions to problems.

There are quite a few parts on the heli that require close attention to detail when setting it up or adjusting it if a person is going to do hard flying. The tail box is one of those parts. It takes a ton of abuse. No one is saying you can not break it, as I am sure that if someone sets out to break it they can. I can strip the metal gears in the old box in 1 flight if I really try to.

Anyway, time will tell. So far I am very happy with the performance and durability of my boxes.

Take it easy and happy flying.

[cdrking]

Chris,

I called Rick's today to see if I could get the new grey gears only and they said they don't have them yet.

Any thoughts on when the gears will be available as sets or individual gears? I don't want to lose the downtime sending the box back and forth.

Thanks,

Jeff King

[ChrisS]

Hi Jeff

I can send you the gears. PM me with an address.

Chris

[r2160]

Hey all

On the subject of gears, I am about to get my first open box.

Do I make sure that there is just a smidgen of backlash in the gears as I have set my closed boxes (I might add with NEVER a failure:-)) or should I after a flight or two, just push the gears together and tighten for max life?

By the way eric, awesome vids on your website! Just hope we can get you downunder soon!

thanks
Glenn

[DavidH]

Instructions for maintaining the open gear box are located on MA site.

http://www.miniatureaircraftusa.com/support/setups/open_tr_gearbox_recommendations.asp


David

[freddyferris]

Sorry to interrupt this discution...
But could some body please tell me the diffrence between the stock gear and the open gear? I know that one is open and the other not..:) that's all..

BTW: I Check my complete machine before and after every flight.. takes 2 minuts.. but prevents you of houres of repairing :)

Fred

[3DME]

Hello

I just wanted to add a little info. Last weekend I had an elevator servo lock in the full forward position while tumbling my Stratus close to the ground. Needless to say she went in. But the funny thing is it went in on the tail, there just was not enough room for the tail to make it under the heli. The tail took the brunt of it. When the tail hit, it broke the boom completely off the heli but the blades never touched it. Because the tail was gone, when the main blades hit it spun the mechanics around real fast, then slapped the ground. This some how saved the main blades, a few nicks but they are OK.

Back to the point, The tail suffered alot of damage........ like:

Broken yoke
ripped the ball out of the pitch change ring
Broke a V tail blade
Bent output shaft
Bent tail bellcrank mount
Broke boom
Broke torque tube

Grey tail gears..........perfect, not even a nick. I had set the lash 2 flights before the crash. After seeing this I have a hard time beliving that properly adjusted grey gears could fail in flight.

This crash also broke the left frame between the throttle servo and aileron servo, also above the aileron servo. As Conrod said..."Man that thing hit hard"
But just like golf, I filled my divitt.

Mike

[EricLarson]

Hi Glen, thanks for the kind comments :) I also hope to make it over, as the last trip plans just did not work out due to schedule conflicts. I sure would like to make that trip though.

The instructions Tim posted on the MA site are very good. There is not any magic, just set them up with the least backlash that allows them to spin without excessive resistance. Mine have a bit of backlash, but that is after the breaking flights and then I reset them 1 time. They are set deeper than originally due to the break-in, and I am not concerned with the small amount of backlash. As long as you inspect it from time to time, and reset the mesh after a break in flight or two you will be good to go.

Hi Mike, I mostly agree with you. I did a dumb ass thing and tried to cut the grass at MHA in a hover this weekend. Problem was that the grass was only about 3/4" tall and the ground ate my heli. Afterward my gears are still fine.

BUT, every crash is different and things happen differently. I have seen some really crazy stuff fail for many different reasons, so I am sure there will be some failures just as a result of this stuff being intended for model use. I am glad though, that yours are working well.

[rappyfly]

Update

I had 11 flights on the new TT gears. It hold up good while "performing" the same move which strip the minair one.

The only thing concern me is TT design these gears in close environment, the light, heat and UV might not effect the gears in the close box. And we use them in open environment. I hope I have more time on them. :D

[G MAN]

There's something that would be a nice thing to have ,a removable cover for the TR gear box with exposed gears for when it's sitting in the sun.