Fury clutch question.

[cdrking]

I have an older Fury Extreme, it has the updated clutch driver but not the new heavy duty clutch.

In the picture the red arrow is pointing to where it's rubbing on the carbon side plates (blue arrow).

I've been flying this for quite a while without any problems and I haven't noticed this rubbing before. It may have been that way for a while.

What would cause this?

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/6b4403dd564fd0c6ecbc1b6413234942.jpg

[fitenfyr]

Wonder if your fan is slipping?
I assembled mine wrong on my other Extreme (read the book dummy :D ) and missed the shim between the clutch and the bell, but it was rubbing on the otherside of that.
Wonder also if your clutch plates have slipped a bit?

[cdrking]

Hmmm, I don't know. The whole clutch assembly was done at the factory, I sent it back to them.

I don't think the plates have slipped because they as tight as can be. I also check the allen head screws that hold them in place often.

I really don't want to take the engine out but maybe I'll have to tear it apart. Wanted ot get it flying good for Tri-Cities.

Thanks,

Jeff

[fitenfyr]

Wanted ot get it flying good for Tri-Cities.
Ain't that always the case. :D

I am down to a Raptor 30 right now. :D

[3DME]

Hello

I just looked at my "just built" Extreme and it looks like there is an O-ring in between the bearing block and the upper clutch driver. I looked in the manual and it does not show the breakdown on factory assembled parts. Mabey it was mis-assembled at MA. I wonder if the bearing block is upside down. Just to say, metal rubbing carbon is a common cause of radio glitches. I would investigate before any more flying.

Mike

[DavidH]

Jeff,
The only thing I think that would cause that problem. Is that the bolts that hold the bearing in place in the bearing block are loose or missing.
The bearing block I am referring to is the one between the clutch and the clutch driver. You will have to take the clutch assembly out of the heli to check this out.
You may even have to unscrew the clutch off the driver assembly. There should be two counter sunk bolts right under the clutch that screw into the bearing block to hold the bearing in place in the block. If they are not there the driver assembly can move upward and rub the frames like you see in the picture.

Here is a picture on Rick's to give you an idea what I am referring to.
http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=heli&Product_Code=MA120-23

The above is the bearing block between the clutch driver and clutch. The two counter sunk allen screws will be in the block under the clutch side.


David

[EricLarson]

The bearing either went to heck, or the 2 screws holding it in the block are loose or missing. David hit it right on the head. You need to do exactly what David said and then let us know what you find. It is not a hard fix.

That can happen for many reasons, but the #1 reason is that people push the motor up too far and it preloads that bearing block vertically. This was something people where doing to try get the older softer dampeners to last longer, but the real problem was misalignment and that was a band-aid. Make sure you have at least 20 thousands gap and things should be just fine.

Again, they can go to heck for many other reasons :)

[cdrking]

Yeah thanks guys. I know exactly which bearing you're talking about because I've changed this bearing before. I don't remember why though.

I think I may have done what Eric mentioned and pushed the motor up too far. The alignment is perfect but I may have gotten the gap too tight.

I guess I pull the motor AGAIN! No grey gears for the tail and now this :arggg:

Thanks again. I'll post some pictures when I pull it apart.

Jeff

[cdrking]

I have it taken apart and I do have a new one to put in. It looks like the screws are loose or the bearing is bad.

There is up and down play between the red arrows. This explains a bit of a rumble that I've heard on the last two flights.

Next question is how do I get it apart and fit the new one in? I have an arbor press but the assembly won't fit in it (it's a small press).

Thanks,

Jeff

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/5be4b79b64f7f45f5e3b485198142b7e.jpg

[DavidH]

Usually the clutch bell assembly and bearing blocks will just slip right off the clutch and clutch shaft.

I would just support the upper bearing block in maybe a vise and then take a hammer and tap the start shaft. This should allow the clutch and driver assembly to be removed from the clutch bell and bearing block.

David

[cdrking]

So they don't put loctite on the I.D. of the bearings? I'm surprised they don't.

Thanks I'll try that.

Jeff

[DavidH]

Really no reason in my opinion to loctite the ID of the bearings of the clutch shaft to bearings in the bearing block.

The start shaft is not going to move up or down in the bearing block bearings.
The clutch bell bearing block is bolted to the heli, the clutch and clutch driver assembly are bolted the heli. There is no movement between the two of them.

Now Yes on the clutch system like in the XL-60 and the P2K. I did loctite the ID of bearings to the start shaft. Because in that system the start shaft could move up and down because it is just sitting on top of the fan hub and not hard mounted anywhere.

David

[cdrking]

Got it apart and it seems some of the bearings need to be regreased.

Do you think it's worth it to upgrade to the new heavy duty clutch?

Jeff

[DavidH]

If the heli has a 90 size engine and your flying style is lots of collective changes that happen quickly. Then I would suggest to go to the larger clutch and clutch bell that is now available.

David

[mevigavant]

does anyone know the turn around time MA has right now? I want to send in my clutch stack to get upgraded.

[DavidH]

What needs upgraded on the clutch stack?

If you just want to go to the new larger diameter clutch and clutch bell. Really no reason to send it in to have that done. The clutch and clutch bell just screw off and on. Takes about 5 mins to change them out once the assembly is out of the heli.


David

[mevigavant]

thanks davidH
I thought it was a really involved process. I've never taken the stck out so I don't know(I purchased this heli used). You just saved me weeks of down time.

[cdrking]

If I purchase this (http://www.ronlund.com/images/ma/ma121-11.jpg/heavy duty clutch) do I have to turn down the liner in a lathe? If so do I have to take it apart to do this, i.e., do I have to take the pinion off the clutch bell?

Also if I have to turn it down what tolerances do I use between the liner and the clutch?

Thanks,

Jeff

[DavidH]

The clutch bells that have the liner already installed in them at MA have been turned on the lathe to the proper clearances.
Clearance between the clutch and the clutch liner needs to be about .005 to .006 on each side. Or .010 to .012 total over the outer diameter of the clutch.

Really all that needed to change to the Heavy Duty Clutch is these two pieces

http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=heli&Product_Code=MA121-20

http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=heli&Product_Code=MA121-22

That is the two pieces I changed to have the HD clutch.

David

[cdrking]

Thanks again for the info. I took the upper bearing block bearings out to regrease them and buggered up one bearing while reinstalling it. I thought it would just be easier to replace the whole assembly, that would be the lazy way out. :) I could just order the bearing too.

[DavidH]

Jeff,
I can understand ordering the whole clutch bell and bearing assembly. I just posted the two items above to show others that is really all that is needed to make the change over.

I have messed up a bearing couple of times getting them out of the bearing block also. I always hate taking the flanged bearing out, once I get it out the other two are easy.

David

[cdrking]

David,

Are there any differences between the thread "pattern" on the drive pin assembly? By that I mean is there a new one with improved/different threads to accept the new heavy duty clutch?

I got my heavy duty clutch today and tried to put it on and it would not thread onto the old threads. I ended up totally screwing it up because I thought maybe it was tapered or something. It stripped the threads on the clutch AND the drive pin assembly.

I now ordered a new one but am wondering if the new one will fit on the other unit that I have.

I tried the old clutch and it threaded onto the assembly with no problems even with loctite still on it.

Thanks,

Jeff :arggg:

[DavidH]

Jeff,
I don't know of the threads being different between the HD clutch and the regular clutch. I screwed the HD clutch onto a clutch driver that is over a couple of years old.
Maybe something was wrong with the threads in the HD clutch you received.

I screwed the HD clutch on by hand till it was nearly tight, then finished tightening it with the wrenches I have to change out the clutch.

David

[kthane]

cdrking, it was the clutch threads that were jacked. First one I ever installed was like that. The clutch would just seize after 5 turns even with 3ft cheater bar. A 10x1mm tap was as close as I could find so I ran that through it and installed clutch with red loctite. Second one I did the clutch screwed all the way down by hand. :roll:

[cdrking]

Hey thanks,

I should have stopped turning it but oh well, live and learn. I didn't have a tap that was the correct size so I couldn't "clean" the threads.

I have a new one coming today, hopefully the threads will be right on that one.

Jeff