New Flybarless System

[Skookum]

Hi lbcynya, good point - the manual isn't updated quite yet.

Tail Drag Compensation helps the gyro counter-act the drag of the tail, which happens due to vertical motion and the downwash from the main rotor. Giving it some direct compensation reduces drifting when Hiller Decay is set to 100% or above, or jerking when you use hard collective pitch. Due to gyroscopic effects, this drag force can also show up in the aileron axis.

On the Advanced tab, setting -10% Elevator axis tail-drag comp would feed in 10% nose-down elevator travel at the swash at 100% positive pitch, and -10% at 100% negative pitch. For the aileron axis, + tail drag comp feeds in right aileron with positive collective pitch. The compensation is only applied in flight mode.

Also note tail comp doesn't need to be perfect because the gyro will compensate anyways, it just needs to see some error first. It can be hard to see a difference with only say 1% changes in tail comp. That's why it wasn't included as an option originally.

Before adjusting tail comp, it's good to check that your swash moves evenly with collective pitch application in setup mode (level at max, mid, and min collective). Otherwise things can get confusing. You can do this by adjusting servo travels. Tweaking here is often required because servos aren't all identical (it is common for the pots that sense position to vary by 10% or more).

[lesodell]

Skookum thanks for the update it help a lot with my trex500

[Ludde]

Well i just removed autotrim and then it stopped drifting :-)
it loops dead on straight now,

Just some tuning with levels and this should be just perfect..
tnx for all help.

[lesodell]

well were is tech support ? i have pmed and email them with NO reply in days ,:mad: as soon as my sk360 started just blinking red and wont set the guys are gone , anyone else having trouble getting a hold of them ?

[Skookum]

I'm sorry lesodell, I somehow missed your PM and just got your email today. Please check your email for my reply.

[lesodell]

cool thanks

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

well were is tech support ? i have pmed and email them with NO reply in days ,:mad: as soon as my sk360 started just blinking red and wont set the guys are gone , anyone else having trouble getting a hold of them ?Skookum's been easy for me to contact. Don't worry, he'll take care of you. :thumbup:

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

I picked up my replacement unit from the post office yesterday and re-installed it last night. Flew two packs through it today with no problems. I'm totally paranoid during the spool up, but everything worked perfectly.

I'm flying the Basic_3D setup file, only modifying the swash mixing, and servo trims to get my throws correct in setup mode. Otherwise it works perfectly fine for me on the Hurricane 550 right out of the box. :banana The roll rates are significantly quicker than what I had with the flybar setup. I'm curious to play with some of the settings, but not even sure what I would want to improve on it now. Will probably just leave it as is for the time being. I'm just doing sport flying with it, loops and rolls, a little inverted stuff, and lots of smooth flowing circuits.

:glasses2:
Jason

[Skookum]

Hi All,

I've been looking at doing a firmware update to make the 4th servo channel optionally an extra input, which would switch between two "advanced" tab gain-profiles. So, how useful would this be?

There are a couple of limitations. If it were to be used as a remote hiller-gain as well, it would only read a new value when mode switch is toggled. The hardware just isn't suited to allow full-time precision readings for that pin.

The other is that the "no computer" setup feature might have to be dropped to make room. Does anyone use that feature?

Also, doing a 2-setup update would probably delay an lcd terminal by another two weeks.

[int2str]

I've been looking at doing a firmware update to make the 4th servo channel optionally an extra input, which would switch between two "advanced" tab gain-profiles. So, how useful would this be?

That would be very nice!

There are a couple of limitations. If it were to be used as a remote hiller-gain as well, it would only read a new value when mode switch is toggled. The hardware just isn't suited to allow full-time precision readings for that pin.

Mode switch being the Setup<->Flight switch?

The other is that the "no computer" setup feature might have to be dropped to make room. Does anyone use that feature?

Never used it.

Glad to see you keep improving your already nice product!

[lesodell]

Skookum has got me going i am happy again

[Skookum]

>>it would only read a new value when mode switch is toggled.
>Mode switch being the Setup<->Flight switch?

No sorry, that was confusing. I meant the proposed new gain/setup input. You know, I don't even know if this is already true for tail gyros because I habitually toggle the tail gyro gain switch before take off. Have to test.

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

Also, doing a 2-setup update would probably delay an lcd terminal by another two weeks.Whoa, I missed any previous posts on this? What would this do?

BTW, I do all my setup by computer.

Thanks,
Jason

[Skookum]

>Whoa, I missed any previous posts on this? What would this do?

It would let you move the hiller gain dial to a gain channel, like for a tail gyro. The same channel would also switch between two sets of all the stuff on the "Advanced" tab. Sort of like how for tail gyros one direction of the gain channel is heading hold, and the other is rate, the travel setting the gain for each mode. A limitation would be it would only read the gain when it was switched, so you'd have to toggle the switch after a change at your radio.

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

What's the LCD terminal?

[Skookum]

> What's the LCD terminal?

There is/was an LCD field terminal in the works, it'd go for about $60. It'd let you access everything you can through the PC interface at the field. Progress on it was stalled by the firmware updates.

[andersnorlin]

I do all my setup by computer.
So I vote for the aux channel switching before LCd panel.

[SpeedVision]

Hi All,

I've been looking at doing a firmware update to make the 4th servo channel optionally an extra input, which would switch between two "advanced" tab gain-profiles. So, how useful would this be?

There are a couple of limitations. If it were to be used as a remote hiller-gain as well, it would only read a new value when mode switch is toggled. The hardware just isn't suited to allow full-time precision readings for that pin.

The other is that the "no computer" setup feature might have to be dropped to make room. Does anyone use that feature?

Also, doing a 2-setup update would probably delay an lcd terminal by another two weeks.

I'm torn. I program with my laptop. Lcd panel would be nice for field tuning, provided that it will let you access ALL the settings. Stick programming capability is a zero priority.

Would the 2-stage functionality require a 7 channel receiver?

Having to cycle the flight mode switch is the buzz kill for me.

Any other concepts up your sleeve for the 4th channel?

[jrohland]

I don't remember if you mentioned this previously. Would there be any advantage to seeing what the rudder channel is doing? I.E. split the rudder channel from the receiver and feed it into the SK360. That would give the SK360 program a heads up on what the rudder is about to do.

Of course, I would prefer an option to modify the settings from a controller switch. For example: a configuration suited to some moves and a second configuration suited to other moves. With the flip of a switch on the controller, I could select one or the other.

jrohland

[SpeedVision]

Of course, I would prefer an option to modify the settings from a controller switch. For example: a configuration suited to some moves and a second configuration suited to other moves. With the flip of a switch on the controller, I could select one or the other.

jrohland

How I understand it:
-7 channel Rx needed
-Flip the switch on the Tx
-Manually cycle flight mode switch on the SK
-Fly

Heli needs to be on the ground... That's what I don't like...

[Skookum]

OOps how I explained the idea of an SK360 remote-gain channel still wasn't clear. Let's call the contents of the Advanced Tab a "gain profile", not a mode. Mode = flight mode vs setup mode.

* Yes, you'd need a 7th channel (unless you can run your tail gyro in HH mode without a gain channel for it)
* Flipping the switch for the sk360's remote gain would switch between two "gain profiles", which would be everything on the Advanced Tab in the setup software.
* The travel in each direction of the remote gain channel would have the same function as the "hiller gain dial" on the case of the sk360. So you could set that independently for each profile, at your radio.
* If you changed the hiller-gain at your radio by changing that travel, the sk360 would only read the gain change when you cycled the sk360's switch at your radio (the 4th input can only read a rough value full time or it risks noise at the servo outputs). You could safely change gain-profiles in flight.

Re the usefulness of a rudder input, it's the other way, rudder info wouldn't be very useful to the sk360, but collective info can give the tail a crude heads-up about coming torque changes. This is why the vstabi reportedly has good tail holding ability despite its standard algorithm, while the spartan applies an advanced algorithm to get equal or better tail holding ability.

Posters on forums have talked about 3rd-axis info helping for piroing, but piros are less an information problem than a servo and linkage problem. Theoretically you could "spin the integrators" [hiller part] but half of that is relative wind trim and the other half relative-to-heli trim so I doubt the result would be useful. The bigger issue is that it takes super fast servos and stiff links to not have a lot of cyclic phase lag during a quick piro. (come to think of it I guess you could adjust the phase trim with yaw rate but it'd be pretty flaky, lots of iffy guesstimates involved)

[andersnorlin]

Would it be possible to communicate with the SK360 over Blutooth if you where to make such an adapter for it?

[Skookum]

If you mean use a cell phone as the interface, it'd be possible but cost as much or more than a dedicated lcd terminal and take longer to develop. An lcd terminal can use the same processor and so a lot of proven code. Plus cell phones open a big compatibility / tech support can of worms. So it's tempting but other than being kind of cool there doesn't seem much advantage. I know a competitor did it, but I also note they are now talking about an lcd terminal as well.

[SpeedVision]

OOps how I explained the idea of an SK360 remote-gain channel still wasn't clear. Let's call the contents of the Advanced Tab a "gain profile", not a mode. Mode = flight mode vs setup mode.


Ahhhh, I can see clearly now...:cheers
Being able to switch advanced tab profiles and the ability to increase/decrease hillier "in flight" is more than we could ask for and I would definately like to see that functionality incorporated.

Would you have advanced tab 1 and 2?

Skookum, Skookum, Skookum! :noteworthy:noteworthy:noteworthy

[SpeedVision]

If you mean use a cell phone as the interface, it'd be possible but cost as much or more than a dedicated lcd terminal and take longer to develop. An lcd terminal can use the same processor and so a lot of proven code. Plus cell phones open a big compatibility / tech support can of worms. So it's tempting but other than being kind of cool there doesn't seem much advantage. I know a competitor did it, but I also note they are now talking about an lcd terminal as well.

As "trick" as that might be, you certainly don't want to go there. You already know that, I'm just supporting your decision not to give in to a potential :bomb:

PDA = Nightmare!!!! :arggg: