New Flybarless System

[vera]

"The whole cyclic pitch question is null "

I don't think so. Some power is taken up by the flybar trying to cycle the main blade pitch but that isn't the only thing going on. The blade will stall at some point, somewhere around 16 degrees, so if you have a lot of collective and then throw in a lot of cyclic the total pitch might go past stall. This remains a consideration with or without the flybar.

[jurassic5]

In case of crashes... no more bended flybar to remove :D

[alvinchai]

Just like to share some setup pictures of the 450. I'm currently using the Mini Titan hub and grips, just to get some extra rotor disc, the stock trex grips works fine too.

The reduction arm is necessary to allow normal servo throws for full resolution and torque. But once flybarless becomes popular, I believe 3rd party manufacturer will see the demand and come up with grips specially for flybarless conversion, which allow for a simple straight linkage from the swash to the grips.

I've added another video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-n0XJ9fmF8

[Funky]

Looks great, the size is very reasonable.... especially on a 450!!!

[bahamadude]

Nice

How much will they be ?

Production date ?

[alvinchai]

Release date should be around early spring, but if all goes smoothly, it may be released earlier.

Price will be announced once nearing release date. It will be very affordable for sure.

[bahamadude]

Am looking forward to it.


Are there any manfactures desigining flybarless helis or retrofits ?

[nikivan]

Here is another test flight with this system. This was shot last Sunday at Burnaby Lake field. Alvin shows yet again awesome pilot skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hd6d1xfEw4

[OICU812]

Well lets hope you include or add as an option made swash drivers for the little rex etc that you are promoting this system on. That is a big thing imho.

[mx400]

That was an impressive flight. What is the total ready to fly weight?

[alvinchai]

I do not have the RTF weight, but the gyro unit itself is approx. 25g with wires and case, final production unit will be slightly lighter.

1d_zwjQA3Wg

[spork]

I do not have the RTF weight, but the gyro unit itself is approx. 25g with wires and case, final production unit will be slightly lighter.

Looks like the thing doesn't work at all. The poor guy can't even keep the darn model right side up. :shock:

[int2str]

Looking at this picture:
http://helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36670&d=1201322934

I do understand what you said about needing the reduction arms to drive the blade grips.

But I don't quite understand the washout base. I assume it's needed to spin the inner swash plate. But I don't see any guide pins from the head to the washout base. Am I blind or is there a different mechanism to link the two.

Also, are the gyros integrated?
I don't see a gyro other than the tail rudder gyro. Or is that not a regular gyro, but instead the gyros (plural) for this flybarless controller AND the tail gyro in one?

And finally, any estimate on price yet?

[fireup]

Looking at this picture:
But I don't quite understand the washout base. I assume it's needed to spin the inner swash plate. But I don't see any guide pins from the head to the washout base. Am I blind or is there a different mechanism to link the two.

Seems to me that a setscrew was added to the washout and prevent it from rotating. Yes, this mod to the washout is to keep the inner swashplate in phase with the grips.

The top lever was added gain some mechanical advantage or perhaps resolution, but I don't think this is required.

Here's my head setup on the T500
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=706

[int2str]

Seems to me that a setscrew was added to the washout and prevent it from rotating. Yes, this mod to the washout is to keep the inner swashplate in phase with the grips.

Judging from your 500 head there, the washout mod doesn't even seem to be needed. The little guide you have is all that's needed? The linkage rods don't bend/flex?

I'd love to see a clean head like that for the 450 with an affordable flybar system. I certainly would entertain the idea!

[fireup]

Judging from your 500 head there, the washout mod doesn't even seem to be needed. The little guide you have is all that's needed? The linkage rods don't bend/flex?

I'd love to see a clean head like that for the 450 with an affordable flybar system. I certainly would entertain the idea!

Nope, in fact there's less flexing than the plastic links attached to the washout lever.

[int2str]

That kind of head should make mechanical setup a breeze, no?

If the new flybarless system that's been introduced in this thread is fairly easy to setup and cheaper than the V-Bar, I could see lot of people go for it.

Have you crashed your 500 like this yet? Seems like crash cost would be a lot less, too.

[mx400]

I would love to try an inexpensive flybarless system on 1 of my 450's. All the other flybarless systems are quite pricey and really not worth it on a 450 IMO. When you figure out a price that you will be selling these for post it up :thumbup:

[alvinchai]

But I don't quite understand the washout base. I assume it's needed to spin the inner swash plate. But I don't see any guide pins from the head to the washout base. Am I blind or is there a different mechanism to link the two.

Also, are the gyros integrated?
I don't see a gyro other than the tail rudder gyro. Or is that not a regular gyro, but instead the gyros (plural) for this flybarless controller AND the tail gyro in one?

And finally, any estimate on price yet?

This is a 2 axis gyro, it is the black box mounted right under the battery tray.

There's a set screw on the washout to secure it to the main shaft. We tried flying without the reduction arm but the result was not good, not enough throws from the servos. I think we were getting around 15 degress of pitch with only 30% swash mixing, which is too little for the gyro to work well, a higher throw is needed to achieve good resolution.

Currently we are using the Kasama Mini Titan hub and blade grips, with this setup we were able to increase the distance from the hub and blade grips, allowing us to achieve the same throws and eliminating the reduction arm, making it a cleaner setup.

[fireup]

Currently we are using the Kasama Mini Titan hub and blade grips, with this setup we were able to increase the distance from the hub and blade grips, allowing us to achieve the same throws and eliminating the reduction arm, making it a cleaner setup.

Have you try running it leading edge? You might like it better.

[alvinchai]

We tried it leading edge, but the Kasama blade grip arm (the red part) is at a weird angle, at zero pitch the arm is actually pointing upwards and not level, so we opt for trailing edge to get a better geometry.

[EricW]

We tried it leading edge, but the Kasama blade grip arm (the red part) is at a weird angle, at zero pitch the arm is actually pointing upwards and not level, so we opt for trailing edge to get a better geometry.

IMHO The weird angle on the Kasama grips is meant to actually improve the geometry when you use the upper mixer arms,...
Since you don't use them the geometry is off.
A fairly simple modification would solve this.
Just move the red griparms to the other side of the grip by drilling/tapping new connection holes in the centerline of the grip.

Eric

[lrogers]

Have you tested with multi blades heads yet?

[spork]

Have you tested with multi blades heads yet?

I'm pretty sure they haven't tested with single blade heads yet. :YeaBaby:

[lrogers]

Oops, I think faster than I type! Let's rephrase that. Have you tested with a multi-blade head yet? A smooth flying H500 with 5 blade head is just what the doctor ordered!