New Flybarless System

[spork]

I was simply joking that most all heads are "multi-blade" (in that 2 counts as multi). :thumbup:

[alvinchai]

IMHO The weird angle on the Kasama grips is meant to actually improve the geometry when you use the upper mixer arms,...
Since you don't use them the geometry is off.
A fairly simple modification would solve this.
Just move the red griparms to the other side of the grip by drilling/tapping new connection holes in the centerline of the grip.

Eric

Thanks for the tip, I may try that.

Last I spoke to my friend who designed the gyro system, he said he will be getting a 5-bladed head to try out. Will keep you guys posted.

[int2str]

Any updates?

[lrogers]

I should be ordering the 5 blade head for my Sea king in about three weeks. I hope to also get one for the T-Rex about the same time if they are back in stock.

OOPs, sorry guys, I thought this thread was in another discussion group and I didn't go back to the begining before answering.

[alvinchai]

Updates so far... my friend (the gyro designer) is finalizing the case design with the molding company, same for the circuit printing. We should receive the pre-production unit very soon for a once-over, making sure everything is within specs and working. Wouldn't be long now I hope.

Also the 4-bladed head for the Trex is on-route, will post the results of the test flight soon.

[Wazzer]

Any indcication on Price yet?

[F1Atom]

I'll like the idea of flybarless. Less parts to break when in crash and less to setup. Looks Kool too. I've never flown one before, how is it compared to flying it with the flybar on? Is it more twitchy, responsive, etc.... From the videos it looks more twitchy but I've seen videos from the Szabo's where they fly almost the same or 450 with Scorpion -6 motor, or even a NEU motor (Holy Crap). I'm not trying to rain-down on anything I just want to see what the advantages of having V-bar. I hope it doesn't cost so much.

[Skookum]

Hi All, I'm the developer of the SK360 Digital Flybar.

Final dimensions are 40x30x15mm, and it can be mounted in almost any orientation. Weight is 20 grams.

The gyro can be set up with or without the USB interface (included), but you'll get better results if you use the interface. Most field-tuning just uses dials on the unit's case. It can use analog or digital servos, latency is just a few milliseconds, and end-to-end precision is 12 bits.

Production is underway and it should be available before the end of March. Price will be less than half that of the v-bar.

Re multi-blades: I just finished testing it with a quad-rotor head on the Trex-450, and after getting the phasing right, it flies very well. The popular low-cost quad head used needed some work though, to get the vibration down from "paint mixer" to "Amsterdam special" (Quads turn out to be 2x as hard to set up as twin blades. Who knew).

The quad Trex has a very solid feel in forward flight, tracks like its’ on rails. It will also hover hands off for about 10 seconds in gusty wind, which is about normal for a flybarless heli with the SK360.

The SK360 has flown a blade cp, x400 (mech mixed), Trex 450 (many configurations), Mini Titan, and Logo 500. Testing is still underway on 30 and 50 size nitros, and the Trex 500. No problems are expected, as it has flown for 6 months and hundreds of flights in many setups, good and bad, with few problems. The rule seems to be that the bigger the rotor disk, the easier tuning is. The Logo 500 for example required no tuning at all from the "starting point" settings.

Mechanically most helis can be converted to flybarless with existing parts, but using a zero-slop swashplate and digital servos really helps. A trex-450 can be converted in about 30 minutes. We will provide instructions for easy conversion of the trex and others. The ideal would be for flybarless heads to be provided for the popular models, but it might take them time to catch up.

When the gyro is available, a link will be provided to the website.

Thanks,
Bruce

[fireup]

Skookum, that's great, hope you mean before the end of March 2008.:)

Sign me up for one.

Is it a 2 axis system or 3 axis system (do I need a tail gyro)?

[int2str]

Nice! Less than half the V-Bar price sounds very competitive!

Will you offer a 2-blade (flybarless) head for the T-Rex as well?
If not, can somebody point me to source for a flybarless T-Rex 450 head?

Not sure if I'll go for it just yet, but I'm seriously considering it - especially at that price possibility!

[Skookum]

fireup> Is it a 2 axis system or 3 axis system (do I need a tail gyro)?

It's a 2 axis system, so you will need a tail gyro. We assumed that most heli flyers would already have a tail gyro, and wanted to keep the cost down so more flyers could try out flybarless.

int2str> Will you offer a 2-blade (flybarless) head for the T-Rex as well?

Engineering heli head parts is a whole other field. But we will be approaching some of the after-market parts companies with suggested specs for one.

However, the conversion to flybarless using existing trex head parts is easy. But a custom-made set of grips and anti-rotation bar would be a much cleaner solution, agreed.

[OICU812]

Bruce,

As brought up a new flybarless system is cool. Now if you were able to sell swashdrivers and heads that were tailored to your systems needs that would help your cause immensly. Saying this as for many do not have tools or the means to make custom parts, sure much of it is not "that difficult", hoewever it is much more appealing to many to have a made and proven and ready solution. Obviously for larger helis there are existing heads and drivers by Mikado and Vario, however for the smaller breeds there are not, this becomes an issue for some and can make impressions bad if the geometry is wrong etc....

Do you have any screenshots of your software, is it fairly straigth forward and does it somewhat guide the user on "how to" adjust and what the adjustments mean and do?

[xStatiCa]

Assuming the price is decent I might try and put one on my electric trex 600. All the other solutions are wayyyyy to expensive to me.

How is forward flight with the system? I am curious how well the system would work for pattern type flying as well as 3D.

[mx400]

You Don't buy a flybarless head you just take some parts off the stock head.

[int2str]

You Don't buy a flybarless head you just take some parts off the stock head.

That's all well and good, but it won't be as "clean" as a purposely designed flybarless solution with built-in guides for the swash links and no mixing arms.

[mx400]

Can't get much cleaner, have you seen fireups trex 500 head? That thing is super clean.

[int2str]

Can't get much cleaner, have you seen fireups trex 500 head? That thing is super clean.

Yes, that's what I'd like for the 450 as well. Exactly my point. I don't think you can achieve that by simply taking parts off the stock 450 head ;)

[Wazzer]

I am sure one of the aftermarket people like Quick, Kasama or Gforce etc will, as soon as Flybarless conversions become more popular, make dedicated flybar less heads for the most popular models.

I personally am looking forward to multi bladed scale models with this system.

I really hope this new system becaomes as popular as it deserves to be and i hope they get the price right, i think it should be no more than $300us then i think they will sell a whole bunch!!

Good luck to the developers i will watch with interest.

[fireup]

Production is underway and it should be available before the end of March. Price will be less than half that of the v-bar.
Thanks,
Bruce

Status?

[Skookum]

Hi. The status is that there have been some minor delays in production, but the SK360 will be released very soon. If all goes well, within a week.

[maxxteezy]

any word on price? I may keep my 450 if its affordable and just go flybarless

[rnbiker]

I hate to sound like a nag, but I have to ask again......is there a PRICE for this thing yet? I'm thinking of getting one for either my Belt CP or my Blade 400....or BOTH if the price is right. I keep hearing that it will be affordable, but no one is giving specifics on the price and many of us are just dying to know how much this setup will be. Could someone give a projected price for these......please?? I've gotten excited about trying out this setup, but on a nurse's salary...cost is a definite consideration. Surely someone knows by now, so can we "let the cat out of the bag"? :dontknow Thanks. ----signed...anxiously awaiting the new flybarless system, but doesn't know if he can afford one....

[spork]

They've said the price will be less than half that of the v-bar. But frankly I don't have a clue what the v-bar runs. I guess I assumed this would be just under half that price. Anyone know how much the v-bar goes for?

[cudaboy_71]

They've said the price will be less than half that of the v-bar. But frankly I don't have a clue what the v-bar runs. I guess I assumed this would be just under half that price. Anyone know how much the v-bar goes for?

$700 for the electronics. if you want a logo v-bar head ready to go it's another $170.

[fireup]

Yes, V-Bar cost $700 but also has a built in tail gyro. This one does not have a tail gyro. So if it's half, you still need a tail gryo and will bring the total price up.