View Full Version : New Flybarless System
Finless
04-08-2008, 06:09 PM
Heck yea! I absolutely would do a full setup video series for this thing and a review. I might even try it on several different helis!
Skookum, feel free to PM me if your interested.
Bob
WillJames
04-08-2008, 06:15 PM
Really looking forward to hearing some real world reports on this
I am just flexing my credit card at the moment to see if there is any space on it!!
+1
It is nice that other more affordable options are emerging. :thumbup:
mjr_larkin
04-08-2008, 09:42 PM
Hey,
I just ordered one of these cookies. I am wondering what the difference in functionality it will have from a 3-axis vbar system. There must be things it can't do when it doesn't have control of all 3 axis. I'm also wondering how I should set my dx7 tx up so that it doesn't do do pre-mixing.
LITHIUMSTATIC
04-08-2008, 10:07 PM
Hey,
I just ordered one of these cookies. I am wondering what the difference in functionality it will have from a 3-axis vbar system. There must be things it can't do when it doesn't have control of all 3 axis. I'm also wondering how I should set my dx7 tx up so that it doesn't do do pre-mixing.
I think we all have a lot of questions at this point in time.
I'm having an ebay fest to support buying one of these. Jdharv67 is my ebay handle if anyone wants to see the stuff I have up for auction. It's none heli stuff. I also have a 67 Camaro front sub-frame that's getting sandblasted and painted too. It will be available in a coupe of weeks.
That's my plan to get one.
george0079
04-08-2008, 10:12 PM
Hey,
I just ordered one of these cookies. I am wondering what the difference in functionality it will have from a 3-axis vbar system. There must be things it can't do when it doesn't have control of all 3 axis. I'm also wondering how I should set my dx7 tx up so that it doesn't do do pre-mixing.
The difference is the tail gyro. With a VBar system, the tail gyro is built-in. With this one, you supply your own tail gyro. The functionality difference is in the gyro you supply.
For the radio setup, set your swash type to 1 Servo NORM
Squirrlybird
04-08-2008, 10:13 PM
Hey,
I just ordered one of these cookies. I am wondering what the difference in functionality it will have from a 3-axis vbar system. There must be things it can't do when it doesn't have control of all 3 axis. I'm also wondering how I should set my dx7 tx up so that it doesn't do do pre-mixing.
I assume/guess you would set it up as a standard mechanical mixing swash (not ccpm), and let the system do the mixing.
mjr_larkin
04-08-2008, 10:41 PM
The difference is the tail gyro. With a VBar system, the tail gyro is built-in. With this one, you supply your own tail gyro. The functionality difference is in the gyro you supply.
For the radio setup, set your swash type to 1 Servo NORM
Ok thanks that's simple. I did hear someone mention that since it doesn't have a gyro input it can't do "revolution mixing". I'm not sure what that term entails but I was wondering if it means there are things a 3-axis system can do that a 2-axs + tail gyro CANT do
fireup
04-08-2008, 10:47 PM
Hey,
I just ordered one of these cookies. I am wondering what the difference in functionality it will have from a 3-axis vbar system. There must be things it can't do when it doesn't have control of all 3 axis. I'm also wondering how I should set my dx7 tx up so that it doesn't do do pre-mixing.
With 3-axis sensing/control into one until, there is something called "Tail Torque Compensation" where the system can see the cyclic and collective movement on the stick and can compensate for the tail because it sees the movement commanded coming from the operator also rather than just from the gryo only. This give the system a heads up on the counter-torque that will soon follow. So, basicly a 3-axis sytem can control a tail better then a 2-axis system with independent tail if the system is setup properly. But for the most part, this feature is nice to have but not required.
kgfly
04-08-2008, 10:50 PM
Ok thanks that's simple. I did hear someone mention that since it doesn't have a gyro input it can't do "revolution mixing". I'm not sure what that term entails but I was wondering if it means there are things a 3-axis system can do that a 2-axs + tail gyro CANT doThere are things that an integrated 3-axis system can do that two-axis plus gyro cannot. I don't know much about it but clearly the firmware in a 3-axis system can account for the changes in head loading associated with collective and cyclic inputs and dynamically compensate the tail
fireup
04-08-2008, 10:58 PM
There are things that an integrated 3-axis system can do that two-axis plus gyro cannot. I don't know much about it but clearly the firmware in a 3-axis system can account for the changes in head loading associated with collective and cyclic inputs and dynamically compensate the tail
Ok, you word it better than me.
kgfly
04-08-2008, 11:06 PM
Perhaps, but you know what you're talking about ;) I think we were simply typing at the same time and our posts crossed in the ether.
dont you guys know what happens when you cross beams ?!?!?!?!
LITHIUMSTATIC
04-08-2008, 11:10 PM
dont you guys know what happens when you cross beams ?!?!?!?!
Like on Ghost Busters?!?!? :shock:
BruceW
04-09-2008, 01:40 AM
Do you think the difference between a 2-axis gyro + tail gyro and a full 3-axis gyro system is actually perceptible? I only ask because there is theory about how well a fully integrated system should work (which I believe is true) and what you will actually get out of it.
fireup
04-09-2008, 02:02 AM
My CSM based Flybarless T600 is a 2-axis + tail and I don't see much differance functionally wise to my V-Bar T500 which is 3-axis.
BruceW
04-09-2008, 02:10 AM
That is good to hear because I'd like to keep my Spartan DS760 on the Logo 500 and try the SK360 2 axis controller to keep costs down. Of course the V-bar is still setting the bar so I'm keeping that in my sights also.
LITHIUMSTATIC
04-09-2008, 02:11 AM
The V-bar as nice as it is is way out of my price range. I hope this is a good alternative.
WhirlingBladesOfDeath
04-09-2008, 05:36 PM
Is the SK360 actually shipping now? I went ahead and bought one yesterday, and was curious when to expect it in the mail? I recently crashed my Hurricane 550, and was wondering if I should just fix it back up as normal, or start getting the head ready for flybarless? I'm reluctant to start moding my head until I have the SK360 in hand as I would hate to sit around several weeks waiting for it to show up!
On the website, they say to expect 2 days for handling and 4 days for delivery, so can I expect my cool new toy some time next week?
Thanks!
Jason
SpeedVision
04-09-2008, 07:36 PM
Is the SK360 actually shipping now? I went ahead and bought one yesterday, and was curious when to expect it in the mail? I recently crashed my Hurricane 550, and was wondering if I should just fix it back up as normal, or start getting the head ready for flybarless? I'm reluctant to start moding my head until I have the SK360 in hand as I would hate to sit around several weeks waiting for it to show up!
On the website, they say to expect 2 days for handling and 4 days for delivery, so can I expect my cool new toy some time next week?
Thanks!
Jason
I ordered on Monday night and got a PayPal "shipping" confirmation yesterday. That just means they created the label... Hopefully it was in the mail yesterday, so I have it by the weekend. I'm cautiously optimistic.
Not sure if I will have enough parts and pieces laying around to mod the spare plastic head on my Mini Titan. Only major issue might be link rods that are long enough and the "pitch reducer" discussed earlier in this thread... I also looked at my Dragonus II head and it looks like it lend itself to the flybarless concept very nice (probably better than the Titan)... The Dragonus is new, never used and for sale, so I'm reluctant to monkey with it out of fairness to the next owner. We'll see.
I am looking forward to some upgrades for 450 sized heli's to adapt to flybarless and look as clean as possible. Blade grips with the necesary geometry and swash driver concepts would be grrreat. (Scott, you probably have some preliminary designs, don't you...:noteworthy) I say add a trick set of grips and the appropriate length feathering shafts (4 mm diameter)to allow most everyone to use their original hubs. For now, we'll make it work.
skydude
04-09-2008, 07:48 PM
There are things that an integrated 3-axis system can do that two-axis plus gyro cannot. I don't know much about it but clearly the firmware in a 3-axis system can account for the changes in head loading associated with collective and cyclic inputs and dynamically compensate the tail
Won't a good tail gyro keep it where it is wanted no matter what?
What do you mean by dynamically compensate?
--
KevinR
04-09-2008, 08:01 PM
On the website, they say to expect 2 days for handling and 4 days for delivery, so can I expect my cool new toy some time next week?
Looks like you're only an hour and a half drive from where they're made, could have just gone for a Sunday drive to pick one up :)
kgfly
04-09-2008, 08:49 PM
[Won't a good tail gyro keep it where it is wanted no matter what? What do you mean by dynamically compensate?
A tail gyro will always try to keep the tail locked. A 3-axis system has more information available to optimise the HH behaviour and so in theory can do a better job than the gyro can alone. Fireup explained why here (http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=623730&postcount=133).
In practice the feedback from users so far is that the difference between a good 3-axis solution and a good 2-axis solution plus good tail gyro is unlikely to be noticable to the vast majority of pilots. The new 3-axis solutions do offer space and weight savings over the 2-axis plus gyro approach as well as a degree of simplification in installation, setup and tuning.
skydude
04-09-2008, 10:52 PM
[
A tail gyro will always try to keep the tail locked. A 3-axis system has more information available to optimise the HH behaviour and so in theory can do a better job than the gyro can alone. Fireup explained why here (http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=623730&postcount=133).
Yeah, I saw that but it didn't make sense at the time. So basically you are letting the system know what to expect right as the commands are being given, rather than the system having to wait for they tail gyro to recieve signals from the motion of the heli.
Thanks kg. Makes sense now.
In fact I can see it all very clearly now. The FLYBAR is what has been holding me back all this time.:YeaBaby:
--
Wazzer
04-09-2008, 11:13 PM
In fact I can see it all very clearly now. The FLYBAR is what has been holding me back all this time.:YeaBaby:
--
EXACTLY!!!
thats how i can justify it to the wife!!........maybe
if only i had worked it sooner thanks Skydude you have saved my life!!
LOL
fireup
04-09-2008, 11:52 PM
Yeah, I saw that but it didn't make sense at the time. So basically you are letting the system know what to expect right as the commands are being given, rather than the system having to wait for they tail gyro to recieve signals from the motion of the heli.
Yes, exactly. It's also called Feed-Forward control/compensation.