New Flybarless System

[BobOD]

[
A tail gyro will always try to keep the tail locked. A 3-axis system has more information available to optimise the HH behaviour and so in theory can do a better job than the gyro can alone. Fireup explained why here (http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=623730&postcount=133).

In practice the feedback from users so far is that the difference between a good 3-axis solution and a good 2-axis solution plus good tail gyro is unlikely to be noticable to the vast majority of pilots. The new 3-axis solutions do offer space and weight savings over the 2-axis plus gyro approach as well as a degree of simplification in installation, setup and tuning.


I can see that a tail control system that has information on what the main pitch is doing could certainly produce a better result. I have no idea if the 3 axis guys are using the information but if they are, there is definate potential. On the flip side, no tail control I've ever seen on a flybar'd heli has pitch information so it's not like you're losing anything. For the price difference, I'll be very happy with a 2 axis plus tail gyro setup.

Cool stuff!

[Jetleaf]

Hey Kevin how does flying the flybarless t-rex 500 compare to the t-rex 500 with flybar. I mean is it easier? More or less effort? Enjoyable or nerve wracking? You obviously like flybarless but why??

[fireup]

Hey Kevin how does flying the flybarless t-rex 500 compare to the t-rex 500 with flybar. I mean is it easier? More or less effort? Enjoyable or nerve wracking? You obviously like flybarless but why??

It's not easier or harder but I would say it's "different". Totally enjoyable and not at all nerve wracking. For me, I've maxed out the settings on my flybarless T500 to have the most cyclic possible. It is so high that when I let Matt Botos and Jason Chow flew it, it was too quick to what they were use to and I had to tone it down a little for them. So to compare it to a flybar version, it's a totally different feeling machine. It can flip and row on a dime without too much correction. It feels like a bigger machine because it flies more "solid". It will tolerate the wind better.

It does have one quality that you will have to get use to (at least with my current settings). It feels like it's too "locked-in". Meaning it wants to stay at its current path and when you transition from one maneuver to the next it won't be as smooth as if it had a flybar. You have to learn to add in the smooth transition yourself, where a flybar heli will "dampen" the transition for you.

[OICU812]

That is a good way to put it Kevin. Another thing to note is that any Vbar type system sees "everything" your fingers do, every mistake can and WILL show in flight. And yes it is "very" different to say the least, to think it is like your flybar heli regardless of brand but without flybar is not true at all, the feeling can only be felt, very hard to explain but flying a flybar heli, then a flybarless is totally different feel for sure.

[mjr_larkin]

If a flybarless heli keeps its pitch angle until the pitch is "undone" by the receiver then does this mean when you tilt forward for forward flight you do not need to compensate for the tendency of the heli to nose up when throttle/pitch is increased? meaning the throttle actually controlls the speed that the heli goes forward? Really gonna have to try this for my self to get the idea

[Jetleaf]

Thanks Kevin & Shawn.

Ray

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

On my Hurricane 550, I'm planning on modifying my head similar to this:
http://www.helifreak.com/album.php?albumid=536&pictureid=3702

This person used some standoffs on the blade grips to reduce the throw a bit. On my Hurricane, I have the Readyheli CF frame, so am using direct servo to swash connections. Would it be enough just to move the ball to the closest hole on the servo arm to reduce the throws, or do I need to the standoffs too?

My other thought was to possibly buy a Logo 500 V-Bar head. The problem with that is it uses a 10mm shaft, and the Hurricane uses a 8mm. I don't suppose anyone with the proper tools could make a sleeve for me? :)

I keep waffling in my mind whether I'll be sorry or not for buying this thing. It's fun trying new stuff out, but sucks that the proper head parts don't quite exist yet. I just hope I can get it to work OK. :)

Thanks,
Jason

[chichisport]

Maybe your heli has an sleeve for the autobearing to ride on it and probably it gota hole and it´s 10 mm ext. dia.
A lot of coincidences but maybe you are lucky.

[speedpass]

Any update on Finless setup video?

[Finless]

I haven't received the unit yet. When I do I will get right on it!

Bob

[Beaver Rat]

Nice job on the website!! Can't wait for your vid finless!

[puma1824]

I haven't received the unit yet. When I do I will get right on it!

Bob

NICE!!!! Can't wait.

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

Woot, mine shipped today! :)

Bob, what heli are you going to install this on? I'd really be interested on your comments modifying the head. Maybe you could have several videos showing the mods needed on different types of heads, and then the last video showing the set up of the electronics? I know, it's easy for me to assign work to others. :) If I can only pick one head, I vote for the Hurricane 550. (that's what I want to put mine on)

So funny story. Last night I was fixing up my Trex 450 after piling it in while flying inverted. The damage actually wasn't too bad, but of course the flybar was bent all to hell. I got it cut out, and went to replace it but guess what? I didn't have a spare flybar! grrr So there my heli sits until I can stop by the LHS and get a fly bar.

Later,
Jason

[SpeedVision]

Woot, mine shipped today! :)

Bob, what heli are you going to install this on? I'd really be interested on your comments modifying the head. Maybe you could have several videos showing the mods needed on different types of heads, and then the last video showing the set up of the electronics? I know, it's easy for me to assign work to others. :) If I can only pick one head, I vote for the Hurricane 550. (that's what I want to put mine on)

So funny story. Last night I was fixing up my Trex 450 after piling it in while flying inverted. The damage actually wasn't too bad, but of course the flybar was bent all to hell. I got it cut out, and went to replace it but guess what? I didn't have a spare flybar! grrr So there my heli sits until I can stop by the LHS and get a fly bar.

Later,
Jason

Ok, since WBOD started it... Bob, I think your Dragonus is yearning to go flybarless. Look at the head and you'll see that it would be a natural.

Mini Titan, Trex or Beam would be second, third and forth choice. Since this unit is selling at a "450 price" I think it should go on a 450 heli. Beam is last because of its newness.

IF YOU REALLY WANT TO BE DARING, see if Scott will flip you a new SJM325.:banana

You'll pick what you want, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

[Beaver Rat]

I would like to see a video showing how to prepare a trex 450 SE V2 head to go flybarless! Are there any websites someone can direct me to that shows how to convert a trex 450 head to flybarless? It doesn't have to be a video, but that would be cool if it was. I just want some info!

Thanks

[chichisport]

Look at the digiflybar web and you will see how easy it is.

[Ecklund1]

Yes, exactly. It's also called Feed-Forward control/compensation.

Hey,..... is that Process Control speak I hear in here? :thumbup:

[Finless]

I dunno guys... I am thinking my Logo500 first! Or maybe the Trex500.....
I will show how to mod the head using Fireup's method. DAMN EASY....

Bob

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

I will show how to mod the head using Fireup's method. DAMN EASY....

Bob

:banana:cheers

[SpeedVision]

I dunno guys... I am thinking my Logo500 first!

Bob

Isn't the SK on a Logo sacrilege? Hahaha.

Still like the 450 concept since they are less stable than their larger brothers...

[BruceW]

Isn't the SK on a Logo sacrilege? Hahaha.

Still like the 450 concept since they are less stable than their larger brothers...

I was thinking the same thing. Its kind of like putting Shimano on a nice Italian road bike instead of going with Campagnolo. Also, the Logo has a really nice flybarless head upgrade but its $200 for just a few pieces.

[speedpass]

Still like the 450 concept since they are less stable than their larger brothers...

+2

[Skiddz]

Heck yea! I absolutely would do a full setup video series for this thing and a review. I might even try it on several different helis!

Skookum, feel free to PM me if your interested.

Bob

PM me when you get it. I'll drive up with the beer and hold your camera for you. :)

[EricW]

I was thinking the same thing. Its kind of like putting Shimano on a nice Italian road bike instead of going with Campagnolo. Also, the Logo has a really nice flybarless head upgrade but its $200 for just a few pieces.

That is something i can't understand at all btw.
Easier machining, less parts, less material and still more expensive just because it's new or hot....
Get a kinda riped-off feeling when i see that, but heyyy I'm Dutch :lol:.
When you buy Campangnolo instead of Shimano you at least SEE the difference in craftsmanship.

Maybe Kasama can start making nice 450/500 flybarless upgrades.
For me he is the Campangnolo in our hobby.

Eric

[forjer]

That is something i can't understand at all btw.
Easier machining, less parts, less material and still more expensive just because it's new or hot....
Must have something to do with that silly supply / demand thing. You know...what they claim is making gas prices so high?