I've gone back to ancient technology!

[Taipan]

No more Vbar! Maybe some other time, when the 'Idiot's Guide To Vbar' comes out. Or just gimme a Vbar that is plug 'n' play like a GY611!

Got a new flybar kit & stole the head and parts to fix my ex-Vbar heli. Took 10 hours of work including a full re-setup. This time I felt comfortable setting-up on my radio than a laptop. :lol:

First time I've build an overslung flybar head. No more mowing the grass. :( Oh well, it seems like a really solid head and should fly great unlike a certain head I had before. Heli gained 0.16kg making a total of 3.66kg/8.07lb, I tend to build heavy, dunno how?? So long it flies well.

Wish me luck for the re-maiden tomorrow!

[epc2]

You must be using a very heavy pack to end up with that weight my flybared 600 weights 7lb7oz with Rxpack and reg and a heavy esc? That's with 10s 3700 and 620's.

epc2.

[Klinger]

Go Kev, good luck with the maiden but i know your build will be spot on. I'll br great to see a few logo's at coffs and i'll give you some competition in the drag race!

[Mercuriell]

Welcome back from the dark side :) - I've sorted off gotten fond of that silly little flybar cage and balls on the flybar setup :roll:

[Klinger]

I may be joining you guys sooner than i thought. My V-Stabi failed inflight today, sortof lost the tail then started piro-flipping which i new was bad because i've never done them. somehow managed to hit hold which worked,(throttle dosent go through v-bar) somehow managed to get it upright...ish and sortoff auto'd in but it was ugly. Amazingly got of very lightly, cracked front of frame (will jb weld i think) took out skids, slight bend in boom. Canopy, battery, V-baldes even main gear survived intact. V-bar unit totally dead, just some random outputs now and then, wont link to pc at all, very lucky i think, now the long road getting it fixed!

[BruceW]

And I was starting to think about V-bar... Maybe I'll hold off just a little longer.

[Mercuriell]

I....., now the long road getting it fixed!

Not so long as you might think - I put my 600 in real bad head first hovering inverted practice and was too traumatised to even inspect the carnage (and no room on the repair bench = dining room table) - however when I got round to it just bent flybar, bust flybar ball, bent shaft and boom - rest OK :thumbup: - have totally changed my view on the durability of these great helis - only took 2 hours fix her all up and just waiting for a one way now which got pillaged for a crash damaged one on the 500.

Kudos to all you guys trailblazing with the V-Bar !!! (though having watched a flybarless - no electronics T600 flying last week at Coolum wonder how desirable the electronics is - Terry said the idea of the electronics was to make a flybarless machine fly like one WITH a flybar - go figure !)

[Klinger]

Yeah john, seen terry fly at dakkasmak last year, he does a great job considering no electronics although i think its probably a bit of a handfull. My damage is not too bad considering what it could've been like but the long road i'm pondering is the v-stabi heading back to germany and its turnaround time!

[Taipan]

You must be using a very heavy pack to end up with that weight my flybared 600 weights 7lb7oz with Rxpack and reg and a heavy esc? That's with 10s 3700 and 620's.

epc2.

I'm also using 10S 3700, Blades are 600mm. Using CC85 ESC which is heavy alright. 73g/ 2 5/8oz Rx lipo. Neu 1912H/1Y which is heavy. Dunno how it's so heavy otherwise.

Mercuriell, yup. Looks better with flybar back on! Without it looked weird, unstable even! :lol:

Bugger it Russ. Sounds like you did a good job saving what you could.


Ok now for my re-maiden;

Did extreme range check, no problems. I'd swapped Rx's with my T-Rex 600 just in case. Btw the T-Rex flew fine with the Logo Rx in it. So obviously it was the damn thunderstorm that shot down my Logo! Lesson learnt. I'm not too upset as woulda still been effing around with the Vstabi and not gone back to flybar. Well not exactly!

Went back to fixed throttle mode on CC ESC. Set for 0, 70, 70 throttle curve so could tach at 0 deg for recommended HS in gov mode. Did 1990rpm, damn it was 2300rpm w/o flybar! Still on 13T pinion which after splitting from crash red loctited back together. So I tried bumping curve to 75%, ideal for gov mode. This gave 1920rpm?? But pack was charged 2 weeks ago & getting flat.

Let's call it 2000rpm for gov mode. Amazing, 300rpm less difference than flybarless. That's 15% difference and I remember reading the first flybarless posts and they claimed 15-20% more power which I was a bit skeptical. Guess not!

Looked like I needed a bigger pinion to get the HS back up, 14T or so. Then a thought occurred to me, why not try flat 100% curve like on the T-Rex? That would give me some more HS back and make the speedy happy as no longer being throttled back.

Datalogger showed 1200mah had been removed so was good for another test hover. Made throttle curve 0, 100, 100. Moved throttle stick up very slowly, after about 5 sec something went 'POOF!' And the tail kicked and power was lost, spooled back down. WTF?

My mate smelled something burning & I saw burn marks on the ESC! Opened it up and you can see for yourself below. Some of the mosfets burned up. I knew running on gov mode before on Flybarless below it's optimum rpm wasn't a good idea. Speedy was getting hot, 55C/131F. I had it set on 2300rpm before which was 70% in fixed throttle mode, still 5% short of ideal. But gov mode was sh!t, 200rpm fluctuations, was peaking at 2550rpm and bottoming out at 1950rpm which was scaring me. So I made it 2150rpm which gave 2380rpm peaks, bit safer. But this was the equivalent of like 60% in fixed throttle mode, 15% below ideal whihc ran it hot. But couldn't gear it any lower, didn't have 12T pinion on hand. At least with flybar back on, this slows things down.

Dunno what I'm gonna do with the ESC. Was hoping it would last until the new Jazz came out. The 55-10-32 is too small. I want a big ESC that won't shut down no matter what, PowerJazz is rather overkill!

[Mercuriell]

Gee glad the heli wasn't airborne - I've had a CC85 do the same. My 55-10-32 runs OK on my L600 but I probably don't fly so hard as you - maybe it would do it you can hold off on the tic-tocs. Certainly I've peaked up to 90A on mine and it has never thermalled.

[NTM]

The 55-10-32 will do 100 amps with no thermalling if you add the additional heat sink to it.

Regards,
Nathan

[markjj]

Oh boy! You dudes have me slightly worried now- I'm just about to order the system tomorrow......


The original plan was to go v-bar, that changed to 'flybar first then v-bar' to 'sod it lets go v-bar', so I've ended up with both heads- now I'm not so sure LOL



http://hometown.aol.co.uk/Mjjbuckley/6003d.jpg


Need some advice please it's a big $$$ investment- the power looks good but is it worth it.

One setup question if poss'- the clamp above the swash needs to be a certain height, but I can't find any ref to this part- is there a specific position.


Cheers

[th3tick]

One setup question if poss'- the clamp above the swash needs to be a certain height, but I can't find any ref to this part- is there a specific position.

I set mine so that the arms are level at mid-stick.

John

[NTM]

I would run it on the flybar head first.
There have have been quite a few people with issues that they blame on the v-bar, when in reality the issue is a fairly simple one in the heli's basic electronics setup or component selection.
They end up going round and round about the problem believing the v-bar is the issue.
I think adding the v-bar to a heli that already is setup properly will minimize headaches.

Just my opinion, others may differ.
Personally, I just built my 600 with the v-bar, double checked the setup, went flying and didn't have any issues.

Regards,
Nathan

[OICU812]

I agree, Vbar certainly is not for beginners at all to start with imho. Like Nathan says you have to ensure everything is 100% setup correctly on your heli and sometimes doing this with flybar first is best, and it allows you to get a feel for the heli to replicate, which is my excuse for building a flybared 600 to, lol. Only a motor and esc and she is done baby!

Anyhow good luck and have fun! :lol:

[Ticidytoc]

Wow, after flying the V-Bar for the last 4 months I can't ever imagine going back to a flybar on the Mikado now.

[markjj]

Many thanks for the tips- just a quick reply as I don't want to hijack this thread.

In a few clicks I've just spent some proper $$$, V-bar will be here thurs- readyheli are posting out 3 jr8717 and a bls251-infinity hobby for a zpower 800- packs will be 5s x2 4200 revolution(fma stuff), I have a cchv85 here but am tempted to leave it in the drawer and go jazz. WR 5amp bec, hope this is enough!

I'm tempted to maiden this with v-bar, any slight hiccups and it's straight back to flybar and go from there, just a pinion left to order....

I've left the hardest bit to last LOL. ( cannot find the smileys to post !! )

Cheers.

[OICU812]

Here are a couple quick pics of my ancient technology 600. Just need an esc and motor and it is ready to rock out for warmer weather to! :smokin:

[Taipan]

Hey Shawn, I think I get you now. You spend all winter building no less than 5 helis so that when summer comes you don't waste one second working on ya helis! :lol:

Btw, where did you get that head button ? Looks like an old part to me and does it fit the 600 3D head?

I dunno about you but looks like having the flybar on top is a fragile design, like the flybar could rip the top of the yoke off in a crash!

[Klinger]

Yo kev, i've put my flybarred L14 in a dozen times (yeah great flyer hey :lol: ) and never once damaged the head block! You back in the air yet?

[OICU812]

Taipan, you hit the nail on the head. In anticipation of the new Logos last summer I sold off my fleet of other Logos "MY Logo 14s" and a Logo 10, as well as some "other" helis....At any rate to make a long story short, the new Logos took longer than anticipated to arrive, I crashed what I did have left at the moment "horrible luck last year", waited for parts a long time etc etc.... and lost tons of good flying time.
I had one honest dumb thumb last season no kidding, then I had 7 other bad crashes, 4 of those were complete re kits! :shock: These were from a Spektrum rx failure, a TR servo failure while in ail tic toc a few feet from ground, a Gyro "611" failure, belt breaking, and others not sure I can remember, lol.

Since our flying season here can some years be as short as 5-6 months I need to be able to fly man!!! This being said in total I now have 6.5 Helis ready to rock for 2008 season! :happyd I will NOT be sitting and fixing this season, and if I am I will have others to fly at least!

Sorry to have hijacked thread!


BTW....

Oh yea,, Headbutton, it is the same one you can still buy for the Logo 10, 14 etc,,, the flybar cage core is same still on the new Logos as well. I can't remember the part # at moment sorry.

[Taipan]

Yo kev, i've put my flybarred L14 in a dozen times (yeah great flyer hey :lol: ) and never once damaged the head block! You back in the air yet?

Hehe, good to know!

Nah, waiting for my 55-10-32 to arrive next week. Can't wait!

Shawn, thanks for the info. Nurries, you didn't hijack this thread, it needed some life anyway until I get back in the air!

In the meantime I've been flogging the hell out of my poor T-Rex 600E. It's still no subsitute for the Logo! :lol: It's unbelieveable how much abuse it takes yet refuses to die. Yet the Logo is eating up ESC's and other bits & pieces like there's no tomorrow!

Only if Mikado named their heli 'Spinosaurus' instead of 'Logo.' The Spino is a bigger meat-eater than the T-Rex. A Spino heli woulda certainly refuse to die! ;)

[ozace]

Kev, what parts are needed to go back to the flybar from Vbar ? Is it a kit to buy or a set of parts ?

adam

[Taipan]

Hey Adam, the Vbar got you stumped? :lol:

I bought a whole new flybar Logo kit! Stole the head, swash, boom, main shaft and several other bits to fix my first one. Wasn't much left, at least I ended up with a spare set of frames, tail unit etc. Oh and canopy which I sent off to be painted.

Cheers,

Kev.

[ozace]

Kev, i was stumped from day one. It now works because Russ was kind enough to talk me thru the finer setup points but as far as tweaking goes i am still scared. If the UNconversion was a simple parts pack i amy have considered it.

When i started with the Vbar i was very open that i am not clever enough for the software and nothing has really changed:arggg:
I do hope that with some more time and patience i will get around to understanding what i am doing rather than just accepting what i have now (which is doing well for me.)