HAC Five Blade Rotor Head

[RChristopher]

In my thread on mounting an MD500E fuse to a T-Rex 450, hooked124 gave a source for a multi blade head system with a very attractive price. See the attached link.

http://flying-hobby.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3_25_114&products_id=2383

Anyone out there know anything about this item regarding qualty, etc?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Cheers

Bob C.

[Deron Douglas]

Hi Bob,
as soon (maybe sooner) as I sell my 4 blade head I'm going to get one of these for my 500E. I'll let you know how it is. :thumbup:

[lrogers]

Please post a report, I'm interested in that head too.

[Deron Douglas]

Please post a report, I'm interested in that head too.

Will do.

[Rodan]

I have both their 3 blade and 4 blade heads and have flown both (without stabilization) on my TRex 450. The quality is pretty good considering the price point. The 3 blade flew well, but the 4 blade has created some issues, as tail authority becomes a problem with the extra torque required to turn 4 blades. I am building an Align EC-135 on mine, and the fuselage blocks much of the t/r. I went to a four blade tail, and it made a dramatic difference w/o the fuse. I have not yet flown it with the fuse (soon...).

I expect you will see tail authority problems turning 5 blades, even without a big tail blocking the t/r, and you may need to make a 4 blade tail. The multis like lower headspeeds, and the tail just can't keep up.

Another issue that may become a problem is getting the proper swash phasing with the 5 pitch links. It's going to get pretty crowded. It does look like they redesigned the swash driver, which is good, as the one that came with the 4 blade head bound before full pitch could be reached.

These are pretty well made, but it's not going to be plug and play. Be prepared to do some tinkering (and maybe crashing) before you get it really working. I would not recommend one of these until you are very comfortable and competent in hovering and all FF regimes...

Almost forgot, here's a link to my EC-135 build thread, there's more discussion of the tail problem there: http://www.scalerchelis.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8711&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[screwbirds]

Rodan
What is a size of pinion will do the best for lower headspeed? and thanks for the link, it is very helpful for duplicate the cascade type tail also thump up to Super Hornet.
Thanks

[Rodan]

I am using a 12t pinion on a JustGoFly 450TH, but it will depend upon the KV rating of your motor. Try to get ~2200 headspeed in the efficiency range of your motor.

[Deron Douglas]

Is there a multi blade tail available anywhere for the T450? I flipped the tail housing on the tail rotor to put it on the opposite side so that it matched the 500E closer. Anyone know if there are any problems doing this?

Thanks.

[Rodan]

You shouldn't have any problem flipping the tail. Just make sure the belt has the proper twist for the t/r to rotate leading edge up, into the down wash from the main rotor. You may have to change your rudder/gyro settings, so make sure everything is going the correct direction before attempting a test flight.

WRT the multi blade tail, there is nothing commercially available. Fortunately, Super Hornet paved the way for us through his experimentation, and it is relatively easy. Use a Blade CP mainshaft (same 3mm diameter as the stock tail shaft), and a second stock TRex tail blade holder/hub assembly. Take a look at the build thread I linked a couple of posts up for more details.

[Rifleman]

Just make sure the belt has the proper twist for the t/r to rotate leading edge up, into the down wash from the main rotor. .

Of course that won't be exactly scale though....... the full-scale 500's have the tail rotor's forward blade sweeping downward WITH the M/R downwash! (Picky aren't I?)

[Rodan]

That's true, the full size MD500 has the tail rotating the opposite direction. I our application, I would be more concerned with tail efficiency. If you find in test flights that tail authority is not a problem, give the correct rotation a try... My experience with the 4 blade head is that tail authority is marginal, and it will be worse with the 5 blader.

I'm picky too, but not to the point of being unflyable ;)

[Deron Douglas]

In my thread on mounting an MD500E fuse to a T-Rex 450, hooked124 gave a source for a multi blade head system with a very attractive price. See the attached link.

http://flying-hobby.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3_25_114&products_id=2383

Anyone out there know anything about this item regarding qualty, etc?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Cheers

Bob C.

Bob, I order the 5 blade head yesterday and it shipped this morning. So I'll let you know when I get it. I'm not ready to fly it yet. But can give you an opinion of the construction?

Deron

[RChristopher]

Anyone see this one? Second article about the 4 and 5 blade head. Appears to be the same unit. Indicates it comes pre-phased on the swash plate. Rodan, was that the case with yours? Did you still need to make adjustments regarding phasing? From your EC-135 thread you indicate you are not using a mixer. Have you test hovered/flown that one yet? Is it overly sensitive? I am doing fairly well in all free flight respects, and I would really like to "Not" have to deal with additional gear and expense, i.e. gyro's and mixer.

http://trexmad.co.uk/mag/

http://trexmad.co.uk/mag/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=34&Itemid=1

Later

Bob C.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/n50482/5BladeHead.jpg

[Rodan]

I don't recall if it came "out of the box" with the phasing set. Getting the phasing correct is not that big a deal. The input needs to lead the blade by 90 deg, so the ball on the swash should be 90 deg ahead of the blade grip (centerline of the blade grip, not the pitch link ball).

It is flyable without stabilization, but it is definitely challenging. It is very sensitive on the pitch axis. I have been flying the 4 blader in pod/boom configuration for a couple of months. I hadn't tried it with a fuselage until recently.

[Deron Douglas]

Once mine gets in I may try it without the extra gyros and mixer just to see how it works. I'll report back. But I have the gyros now and plan on eventually getting the mixer.

BTW... I think I have a 4 bladed tail rotor design worked out for the T450. I ordered some extra tools I needed for my mini-lathe and will see what I can do. if it works out, I'll report back to the group as well.

It'll make my little T450 Hughes look a little more scale. :thumbup:

[Rodan]

Here's a shot of the full size MD500E t/r for reference: :wink:

[RChristopher]

Boy, I just got back from doing a little night flying with the 500E at the local bank parking lot. She is flying really great and looking so good. I am not sure if it is really worth complicating things with a multi head. The multi is intriguing and looks great static, (and in pictures), but does it really look any better in the air or offer better flight performance? Hmmm... should I go down this road a bit later, enjoy my new little gem as she is. I know that since she is virtually finished that relentless urge to tinker will soon become overwhelming, so where is that credit card... :)

Later

Bob C.

[Rodan]

If you just want to fly it and have fun, keep the flybarred head. The multis are a challenge, both to set up, and to fly. The do look different, and even sound different, so it's worthwhile, if you're after the scale look, and willing to put up with the difficulties.

[Deron Douglas]

Here's a shot of the full size MD500E t/r for reference: :wink:

Thanks, this is really close to what I had in mind. I'll be making up my own hub then using the grips from the SE. Still working on the control yoke.

[Deron Douglas]

Boy, I just got back from doing a little night flying with the 500E at the local bank parking lot. She is flying really great and looking so good. I am not sure if it is really worth complicating things with a multi head. The multi is intriguing and looks great static, (and in pictures), but does it really look any better in the air or offer better flight performance? Hmmm... should I go down this road a bit later, enjoy my new little gem as she is. I know that since she is virtually finished that relentless urge to tinker will soon become overwhelming, so where is that credit card... :)

Later

Bob C.

Depends, for me it's the building that I enjoy. I like metal (have a small machine shop in the basement)... I like to tinker and work out mechanical problems. So I'd be doing this anyway. Sounds like you don't really have a need for the multi since you're enjoying the heli as is. And you're right, in the air, who can tell if it's a multi or a two blade with a flybar.

[Deron Douglas]

Here's a shot of the full size MD500E t/r for reference: :wink:

Hey Rodan,
I'm not sure, can't tell from the angle. But this isn't an asymmetrical tail is it?

Someone in the other group mentioned that 500E have these type of tail (see image).

I hope not, it looks more complicated.

[Rodan]

Yes, it's asymmetrical...

[Deron Douglas]

Yes, it's asymmetrical...

Hmmm thanks. I was afraid of that.... BTW.... here's a REALLY nice 500E... and a lot more.

http://www.heli-factory.com/modelle/hughes/hughes500emclaren/index.html

[Deron Douglas]

OK... I received my HAC 5 bladed head today. And I must say that I'm impressed. This one is true CNC constructed out of alum. billet. You can tell by the cuts....

The phase adjustment arm is well designed and all in all it looks to be modeled against the Deetee version and the align swash plate.

I'll grab my camera this weekend and try to take some close-ups. Won't have a chance to fly it till spring however...

[appleseed]

Has anyone thought of or tried a SJM325/500 multi blade tail? I know it’s not a 4 “blader” but it may help with any tail authority issues?