Z20 14 T Vs 15t

[mjdee14]

I am running the Z20 980 motor and have used both the 14T and 15t gears...all other gearing is standard Gaui, plastic frame, metal grips, 515 cf blades, long tail,
using 2500 polyquest 25c and 3300 polyquest 25c packs.

I flew the 15T yesteday with some very brisk winds and the little extra headspeed made a nice difference..

Here are the Eagle tree data that I have collected so far.

.............................................14T.. .................................. 15T

Motor RPM ......................18,000 avg .......................19000 avg
head RPM .......................1850 - 1900 .......................1950 - 2000
Amps............................... 18 -21 avg ........................25 - 28 avg
Avg mah/min.................... 254/min ............................309/min
watts................................ 400................................... 600
Hovering amps................ 15 - 18 ..............................16 - 22
2000 - 2200 mah used.....7 - 8 mins...................... 6 -7 mins
Batt Temps.......................90 deg F.........................90-95 Deg F

Most of the above is averages and there are probably no surprises.

The Z20 is much better than the Gaui 890 18 - 24 amps hovering with 6 min flight times.

I think for now I will return to the 14T pinion....it is a little easier on the lipos....gives better flight times....and for my flying has plenty of headspeed. I just purchased two hextronic packs for $27 each and the 14t will be better for them.

The difference is definately noticable with the 15t but the 14T does the job for now.

Mike

[Kepler]

Dont leave it on the 15 tooth for too long otherwise when you go back to 14 tooth, you will hate it. The extra head speed spoils you. When I was running the 16 tooth for a while, I went back to the 15 to try and get some running time back but hated it. Had one flight and straight back to the 16 tooth. Now l have put in the Z30, I dont think I could go back to Z20. The extra power and head speed is just too nice. My packs sure dont like it though.

[Zoobie]

Mike what sort of flying are you doing to get those sort of times? And under flight times you say "2000mah" is that how much you put back in the pack (ie 80% of 2500))? because I will be installing my Z20 shortly and your data is getting me excited. I went big and ordered the 1100 gaui - but it kills my packs - you can fry an egg on them after three mins of hovering!!

Thanks.

Brian.

[mjdee14]

Mike what sort of flying are you doing to get those sort of times? And under flight times you say "2000mah" is that how much you put back in the pack (ie 80% of 2500))? because I will be installing my Z20 shortly and your data is getting me excited. I went big and ordered the 1100 gaui - but it kills my packs - you can fry an egg on them after three mins of hovering!!

Thanks.

Brian.

I am into FF, stall turns, figure 8's and just general flying.....I land two ro three times to check the Eagletree mah used and usually add another minute of two till I get to about the 2000 mah used...i have gone a little higher and I figure with the Z20 14T set up 7 -8 minutes is fairly safe for my 2500's. the 3300's I go 7 -8 min. I usually shoot for 2000 mah used on the Eagle tree (I have the LCD monitor mounted on the side...like a built in "gas gauge") Worth every penny to know how many mah used and left.

I really am very happy with the performance....motor is cool lipos are just barely warm...my temp gauge reads about 90 - 100 deg...

I do know what kepler means...the extra headspeed really seemed nice...especially in the wind. i also brought out my ECO8 and had to cut the flight in half due to the wind. With such a low headspeed on only 3s packs, it was no fun to fly. The wind hardly even phased the 550...and man did it scream downwind !

I'm going back to the 14t for now as i mentioned I bought the cheap Hextronic 2200 packs for $27....they should work nicely with the 14T and 6 mins should be no problem.

it's fun to use the Eagletree and see what you have pulled in amp, watts, etc.

The only question I have is it seems I am in Govenor mode, rpms are all constant, but on one set of 2500's it actually speeds up after landing and ramping up again....seems to get abother 500 or more rpms...


the question has been asked several times about the gaui governor mode....does anyone have the right answer....is it 4 beeps gov...or 4 beeps non-gov ?

Bottom line is if you want duration...or are running smaller lipos use the 14T...if you want a little more speed at the sake of shorter run times use the 15T...I would almost think the 16T would be too much on the Z20 980, depending on the lipos...

The stock Gaui ran hot, higher amps, shorter times, and puffed 2200 18c packs, that were sold with the kit !!

[Zoobie]

Dont you get a TX mounted downlink for the eagletree? I am sure I saw a gadet like this somewhere, so you could watch stuff realtime on your TX. I think it included a gps and altimeter as well. Cool gadget, but if memory serves me correct it was quite pricey.

[faxxe]

Thank you, Mike!

I use the same motor and was not sure, 14t or 15t gear. Unfort. i have no Eagletree.
And therefor i´m verry happy that you did that Test. Good work!

I´ll stay with the 14t gear.

Regards,
Heimo

[mjdee14]

Dont you get a TX mounted downlink for the eagletree? I am sure I saw a gadet like this somewhere, so you could watch stuff realtime on your TX. I think it included a gps and altimeter as well. Cool gadget, but if memory serves me correct it was quite pricey.

I think there is one that is real time, but every sensor is separate... I got the Eagletree with battery temp, brushless and optical sensor for about $110 as a christmaas present from Tower Hobbies. It has made everything else I have obsolete in the way of testers. You can hook up the download cable and do "real time" bench tests, but everything else has to be downloaded after the flight is over.

Still a neat little gadget.

Mike D

[Zoobie]

Hmmm, $110 doesnt sound so bad. The gadget monster is always hungry!!

[mjdee14]

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=eagletree

Look at the above page...the unit is only $69...but I also got the LCD panel..(must have) it's mounted to the side of the heli so you can see the mah, etc.

you really just need the RPM sensor....temp if you care..nad your set...maybe $125 tops...

Just another "toy" to play with....if I'm not flying I'm reviewing the last flight !!

Mike D

[istandalone]

what kv rating is the z20? all along i've been thinking my rcp 18 was a 1100kv motor when it's actually a 1000kv motor. that at least explains my low headspeeds lol.

[mjdee14]

what kv rating is the z20? all along i've been thinking my rcp 18 was a 1100kv motor when it's actually a 1000kv motor. that at least explains my low headspeeds lol.

I'm using the Z20 980 KV motor...

I;m not sure just how accurate the Eagletree is....but you have to program in the gear ratio so it will give the headspeed depending on the motor RPM. I have the optical rpm sensor also but you can't use the motor rpm and optical together...(but that will change soon)

I would like to use the optical on the main gear to get accurate readings and compare against the brushless.

I also seem to get higher HS after flying a while, landing , and ramping up again....

Don't know if it's beacuse the lipos have heated up a little and are giving more power, or there is something wrong with my ESC. I think I'm in gov mode...I run a faily flat throt pitch so hard to tell, beacuse it looks flat on the graph.

Mike D

[ke6d]

Mike,

Thank you for the test data. I was flying with the RCP H/18 on 13T for a while. I also took flight data with the Eagle Tree recorder and analyze the data at the end of the day. I have the brushless sensor, but I found out that it is not accurate unless you calibrate it. To calibrate, you need to get a optical tach then run the recorder in realtime mode. Running the heli at 0 degree pitch on the ground then find out what brushless sensor and the optical tach are reading. From optical tach reading (I just invested $85 in the SkyTach), adjust the gear ratio so that the two readings are the same. From that point on, you should be able to use the ET recorder brushless sensor to record RPM.

If you are using the optical sensor for the ET, the reading should be accurate already.

I purchased a Z20A motor from reading your previous posts about this motor, but ever since the motor arrived, the rainy weather was just kept coming :( The rain stopped today but my flying field was almost like a lake :)

After reading your post this morning, I decided to take the Hurricane to work with me and checked out the new Z20A motor. It was windy (15 mph wind), wet (from the rain last night), and cold (38 Deg F), but I was determined to check out the new motor, optical tach, and ET V3 recorder :)

Upon spooling up, I noticed right away that the headspeed (at 14T) was much lower than what I was flying on the H/18 motor @ 13T and 95% TC (2100+ rpm) I took it up to a hover and a friend took the HS reading, the HS is 1850 on a brand new set of TPX 3200 v2.

Since the packs are new so I could only fly around for 4 min to break it in. The ET recorder told me after ward, that the Hurricane was running about 250-275 mA / min (vs the 350-400 mA/min that I was used to on the H/18 motor) At the end of the 4 min flight, the motor was just warm (the H/18 motor was HOT)

If the wind is not so bad this afternoon, I will fly my 550 with a set of FP-3200, do some loops, rolls, and flips to see what the difference are, but I found out one important thing this morning already - The heli at 1900 HS is much more sluggish than at 2100 HS.

My next step will be changing out the 19T autorotation gear for the 20T. Hopefully, the extra 100 rpm gain in HS will make the bird fly better.

Thanks for reading my long post.

Dan

[mjdee14]

Dan...

I ran the 15 T and there was definately a difference in headspeed....some have run a 16t on the Z20 but I think that may be pushing it, and I don't want to puch my lipos..

I did like the increased HS and I can see where it would get addiciting....

I really liked the high power climb outs also....

But I am going back to the 14t and try to stay with that for a while.

I do need to use the optical to see how close I am...I guess without the blades would be ok...since rpm is rpm..blades or no blades.

Eagle tree tolf me they are working on a program to allow both the brushless and optical sensors to work at the same time....that will be good.


Mike D

[ke6d]

The wind was getting worse here. It was at 20 mph with gusts in between. The plank pilots packed up and left at around noon. There were only a few die-hard pilots left, but I decided take another flight with my good set of battery pack so that I could compare the recorder charts (also from the same set of battery packs but with the H/18 motor) My friend took the rpm readings on the SkyTach from various maneuvers. Over all, the HS pretty much stay around 1900 during the 4 min flight. I did loops, rolls, flips, climb out. The loops are definite smaller. I could not do the 100ft loop anymore as the Hurricane would stall at around 50 ft climb. Flips and rolls are the same. Stall turns are definitely noticeable. I used to be able to piro 4 complete rotations of the tail before pulling out. Now I can only do 2. I was quite windy so I did not want to push it too much.

The good thing is that the average amp draw in now only 320 mA/min instead of 400-450 mA/min. Maneuvers that used to draw 58 A on the H/18 motor now only draw 40A. The motor is barely warm when I landed. The H/18 motor would be very HOT after the flight.

Now that I am used to the lower headspeed, it is not so bad. I can pretty do pretty much what I want to do. I probably will stay with the current gearing setup for a while before changing out the autorotation gear. As it looks right now on the recorder charts, I can add as much as 1:00 min to my flight time easily.

Dan

[mjdee14]

Dan...

I think for a while the extended flight time and being easier on the lipos is a real benefit.

After flying my ECO8 with about 1300 rpm hs...the 550 sems like a Rocket !

The Z20 is a really nice motor for mid level flying....

Seems your data corresponds with mine...and it was REALLY windy here he other day...the ECO got grounded, and the wind didn't phase the 550.

Mike D

[Zoobie]

Ok, so you guys agree that the 14T is the way to go with the Z20? I only have KP 2200 mah, but I have enjoyed 3K headspeed on my Trex 450. I ordered a 15T when I ordered my motor. I did slow my HS down with the gaui 1100 by running a 50T front gear, but is still ran hot. After reading your data I am really excited to get my Z20, hopefully today. (Takes about 2-3 days from HK and about 2weeks internally in my country!!)

[Cralis]

Zoobie, hope you get your soon too. Bring it on! :) I ordered a 13T pinion, but that may be a bit small eh? 2200 25c packs with the Z20 980? Should I stick with the stock pinion (That comes with the CF version)?

[Zoobie]

You will fly forever with the 13T, but you might not have enough HS and it may be unstable, but give it a try. The nice thing about the Hurri is that their are so many gearing options to play with.

[mjdee14]

Ok, so you guys agree that the 14T is the way to go with the Z20? I only have KP 2200 mah, but I have enjoyed 3K headspeed on my Trex 450. I ordered a 15T when I ordered my motor. I did slow my HS down with the gaui 1100 by running a 50T front gear, but is still ran hot. After reading your data I am really excited to get my Z20, hopefully today. (Takes about 2-3 days from HK and about 2weeks internally in my country!!)

I think you will maximize your 2200's using the 14T....the 15t will work and you'll get a little more rpms, but it will reduce flight time.....

with the 15t 5 mins of good flying will be about normal maybe 6... I am getting a couple of 2200's from Flying Hobby...I believe they will work good....if I go to the 15t permanately I'll most likely use the 2200 on the ECO 8..I can get 12 mins of flying with a 3s2p 2200 pack.

Mike D

[Wazzer]

Hi guys

I am running the very first 850 KV original Gaui motor on 13t pinion, the rest of the gears are all Stock, My eagle tree states I am getting about 1850-1900 Head speed

If I upgraded to the Z20 980KV motor I should get slightly increased head speed right due to the slightly higher KV rating?

I am currently very happy with the Stability at this HS and my flight times are good on 3300's
So with the increased efficiency and higher KV on stock 13tooth pinion the Z20 will give me slightly higher head speed (and additional stability and performance) and longer flight times?

Sounds like a winner all round to me!!

I wonder how I can slip that one past the wife?

Where is the best place for price Flying Hobby looks pretty good to me at $89 USD plus shipping

Ben

[mjdee14]

Hi guys

I am running the very first 850 KV original Gaui motor on 13t pinion, the rest of the gears are all Stock, My eagle tree states I am getting about 1850-1900 Head speed

If I upgraded to the Z20 980KV motor I should get slightly increased head speed right due to the slightly higher KV rating?

I
I wonder how I can slip that one past the wife?

Where is the best place for price Flying Hobby looks pretty good to me at $89 USD plus shipping

Ben

Wazzer....1900 sounds a little high with the 13t on 3s lipos...do you have the Eagle tree calibrated for the 13t...?

I'm not sure you would see much more with the Z20.....I'm running the 14T and get about 1900 with that...But I may have a problem with my ESC as i have had as high as 2100 registered on the Eagle. I'm going to try the optical tach and see what that gives me.

In any case, at your (our) level of flying the Z20 seems to be a good choice for extended flight times and battery life. it also alows good performance from 2200 lipos so you can take advantage of some cheap lipos. 3300 at $120 each get expensive for 1 flight. Your pushing $240 worth of lipos for 6 minutes of flying, I'm going to try a set of the Hextronics for $27 each...$54 for 6 - 7 min sounds a lot better to me.


Mike D

[mjdee14]

Zoobie, hope you get your soon too. Bring it on! :) I ordered a 13T pinion, but that may be a bit small eh? 2200 25c packs with the Z20 980? Should I stick with the stock pinion (That comes with the CF version)?

What pinion do you have as stock? The 14T seems to be a good start, and is easier on the lipos. You can run the 15T but it will shorten the flight times a little.

Mike D

[Cralis]

Mmm.. Mine has a 13T pinion on the motor already. Just removed the engine to check.,..

[Zoobie]

Well I installed my motor (Z20A) today and I am impressed. The motor and packs run about as hot as my JGF 500th in my Trex. When I checked my pinion, the 14T I thought I had was a 13T! Anyway I ordered a 15T with the motor to have options, so I am running with that for now. Just hovered around the garden for a couple of minutes, so I will see how much I will put back to my KP 2200 mah.

[mjdee14]

Zoobie....

Let us know how it goes.....if your running the 15t you will get spoiled and the 14 or 13 will seem slow. The 14t is only a 100 or so slower but much easier on the lipos , with better flight times.

But this is a nice motor....much better than the stock Gaui....don't know why a major manufacturer like Gaui can't put a better motor on the heli....guess it all comes down to unit cost...save a few pennies at the sake of sacrificing performance. The stock Gaui motor ate up 2200 lipo if anything under 20 - 25 c