400 Servos (Thread #2)

[The_Russian]

So I took the advice some of you gave and I ditched my Blade CP.

Woo Hoo! I have found freedom!

I purchased a FP that I practice on and am doing well. Also, I found a Blade 400 for 400 bucks at my LHS and couldn't pass it up (I needed the radio for my parkflyers). The helo flies better than I expected. I have moved on to forward flight and almost mastered hovering in no-wind conditions.

Tonight, however, was my first boo boo. I banked too hard on the ground and didn't put enough collective to lift off. This resulted in a mild blade strike. Blade replacement I can handle, especially from flying the CP. The bad news is that the left collective servo stripped out.

I want to go with the HS65MG's as suggested by other threads. Does anyone have any tips on how to install them? I will accept links to other threads. :)

Thanks

[LockMD]

Sounds like you are not a 'modeler' I would go with ds285mg's they will fit right in ( a little pricey) but worth it from what I have read.

[The_Russian]

Are they as durable for flying? That is my primary concern. With a bit of a "heads up" I should be able to handle the proper modifications required to install hs65mg's.

[BKF]

I've been told the HS65MG servos are better than the DS285MG servos. Is it true? I have no idea...

Because I found a few comparisons online and all of them seemed to favor the HS65MG's, I went with them. The elevator servo goes in without trouble. The 2 other cyclic servos, however, require taking a file to the plastic "meat" on the front side of the mounting area. The rear has too thin material to mess with. After some filing, they went right in... though I did remove the front case and pushed them in from the back so as not to have to deal with the wiring on the side causing trouble for me. Then I re-attached the front case when I was done. If you can get by without doing it, I'd recommend it.

Once on, you'll notice the servos stick out farther than stock, requiring you to mount the ball links on the back side of the servo horns. I found the double ended servo horns had a hole of equal distance to the stock servo horn.

At this point, I'd recommend watching the Finless videos on setting up the servos and linkages. It goes through reversing servos, setting up subtrims and adjusting the swash mix if necessary. After that, you're all set!

Maybe get a pitch gauge to make sure everything is where it should be... I just got through doing this changeover and it's working wonderfully! The stock servos wouldn't perfectly level the swash on aileron movement for some reason when returning to center stick. These do.

I also swapped over to a GY401 Futaba gyro and the JR DS3400G tail servo. Man, what a difference that was! I just flew it today for the first time in gusty wind (and took my training gear off!) and it held rock solid.

Are they as durable for flying? That is my primary concern. With a bit of a "heads up" I should be able to handle the proper modifications required to install hs65mg's.

[LockMD]

I also swapped over to a GY401 Futaba gyro and the JR DS3400G tail servo. Man, what a difference that was! I just flew it today for the first time in gusty wind (and took my training gear off!) and it held rock solid.


Dont suppose you did it in stages instead of all at once?

I have my ds285's and my 3400 for the tail (not gonna mess with the gyro YET) but its doing fine for the backyard. I hate to mess with it and not be able to do anything. And its been so windy here I cant make a change and test it so I am holding off for now. Curious to know if anybody just put the 3400 on the tail and left everything else the same, that's what I will do (I think)

[magoo91h]

Where can you find the Finless videos?

[jtaliaferro]

http://helifreak.com/forumdisplay.php?f=60

[newhelliguy]

I replaced the cyclic servos with hs 65's. they have the carbonite gears and are very strong and can be replaced with metal gears if necessary. the heli went from almost unflyable to very easy to controll. for the two rear cyclic servos I simply cut off the back of the box,installed the servos and used a little JB weld(Qwik) to glue the back of the box back on. the whole process took about 30 min. the servos were 23.00 plus I got the other servos for foamys so it really only cost about 20 bucks.Im concidering a 401 gyro but for now the 110 is OK. I also put a 9650 on the tail. this total upgrade will cost about 200.00 considering I ended up with 4 servos. take out the 200.00 radio about 475.00 in a good heli compared to a rex 450.

[widower]

for the two rear cyclic servos I simply cut off the back of the box,installed the servos and used a little JB weld(Qwik) to glue the back of the box back on.

I don't understand your mod. Are you saying that you cut off the bottom (as in attached pic) of the servo case then glued it back on after the servos were in place?

[adelmasw]

I think he is saying that he cut out the two legs of the rectangle that the servos mount into. Then mounted the servos and glude the rectangle back in. This is instead of filing down the plastic body on the side of the main rotor shaft.

[newhelliguy]

Saul is right . just cut the back out of the box where the servos mount. Im sorry but I am new at this helis and forums. he said it better than I can.

[The_Russian]

So you bought hs65's instead of the hs65mg's?

[The_Russian]

Also, what parameters did you set your radio to?

[newhelliguy]

I used the 65's because I saved 15.00 per servo and the karbonite(spelling) gears are very tough and strip resistant. if they do ever strip they can be replaced with metal gears. even the metal gear servo has one plastic gear that will strip before the metal ones. The rest of the servo is the same. I had to reverse the AILE ELEV and PITCH settings from what they were. So AILE=N ELEV=N PITCH=R. Also I set the SWASH MIX to AILE= -75 ELEV= +75 PITCH= -75. This was trial and error. I also set the pitch curve to L=0% 2=62% 3=75% 4=85% 6=100%. this makes the heli hover at 1/2 throttle and less rpm on main shaft.I read about this on some site and it is only for hovering .do not idle up from this position. I am learning to hover and this works great for this. I hope this helps. Also when you install the servos turn the throttle hold on, set the throttle to exactly 1/2 and install the three servo arms 90 degrees to the servo. this should level the swash plate. Also make sure all your trims are centered and all subtrims are set to 0. just for information before I replaced the servos it was very difficult to fly but now it is much easier.i dont think my original servos held center very well. Our LHS sold 3-4 and one flew very good out of the box but mine was not so good .just luck on the servos.

[BKF]

Sure did. I put the DS3400G on first with the stock gyro to try and see if maybe the stock servo (and then the Spektrum DSP75) just wasn't fast/strong enough. It did get better, but still wasn't "rock solid" like I keep hearing about with the GY401.

No matter what I did, it would still wag ever so slightly in no wind... and with wind it would wag slightly, but small gusts would blow the tail around faster than the gyro could seem to catch it. Sometimes getting 30-45 degrees around, requiring me to bring it back.

That all changed with the GY401. It's only been up in the air twice since I've put it on. This last time was after a rainstorm where it was still pretty windy, but the tail held solid while the rest of the heli got tossed around about 25-30 feet up pretty badly. I was pretty skeptical of "rock solid" figuring there likely has to be SOME wag, but there was none at all... it really did hold perfectly solid, and gusts didn't do anything to it.

So, I'd do the same thing... Try adding the servo first. See if it gets better. If it does, great! But if there's still wag, and no amount of up/down gain seems to make it truly locked in, then I guess it might be time for a new gyro.

I saw someone mention the hitec 5000 gyro, which comes bundled with a high speed digital metal gear servo... And I think I looked it up and the price bundled was the same cost as a GY401 by itself. Also, the Hitec 5000 weighs significantly less. However, in reading about it, I saw a few people say it's really hard to set up... But maybe it's worth it for the cost/weight issue.

Dont suppose you did it in stages instead of all at once?

I have my ds285's and my 3400 for the tail (not gonna mess with the gyro YET) but its doing fine for the backyard. I hate to mess with it and not be able to do anything. And its been so windy here I cant make a change and test it so I am holding off for now. Curious to know if anybody just put the 3400 on the tail and left everything else the same, that's what I will do (I think)

[LockMD]

Sure did. I put the DS3400G on first with the stock gyro to try and see if maybe the stock servo (and then the Spektrum DSP75) just wasn't fast/strong enough. It did get better, but still wasn't "rock solid" like I keep hearing about with the GY401.

Okay what am I doing wrong? I installed the 3400 last night, thought I had it pretty centered upon testing spinning up slowly it would yaw one direction and with slight correction from me it would pyro really fast - same thing in other direction. I played with the travel adjustments, rudder sub trim, nothing I did made any difference :confused:

Help!

[whirlydude]

LockMD, Are you using the JR DS285 MG-SX digital servos with the metal gears? If so, how do they fit? Also has anyone tried the JR 241 MG metal geared servos? I was just wondering how these 2 servos were working in the 400?

[LockMD]

I have the 285's but have not installed them yet, the specs are a tad smaller then stock, so they should just pop in with no probs or mods. First I have to figure out what I am doing with this 3400

[BKF]

What did you do in the TX menus after installing the 3400G?

I remember I had to reverse the rudder channel, but NOT reverse the gyro channel. If I did, the gyro didn't do anything.

Then I had to switch the gyro switch opposite of what it was (on the gyro itself), and also flip the switch so it was in digital mode.

Also, my bird almost always yaws one direction when I spin up slowly (before it's even light on the skids), and then I reverse rudder the other direction and it stops as the gyro seems to kick in and take over.

This happened with the stock gyro and the GY401 now.

Okay what am I doing wrong? I installed the 3400 last night, thought I had it pretty centered upon testing spinning up slowly it would yaw one direction and with slight correction from me it would pyro really fast - same thing in other direction. I played with the travel adjustments, rudder sub trim, nothing I did made any difference :confused:

Help!

[LockMD]

What did you do in the TX menus after installing the 3400G?

I remember I had to reverse the rudder channel, but NOT reverse the gyro channel. If I did, the gyro didn't do anything.

Then I had to switch the gyro switch opposite of what it was (on the gyro itself), and also flip the switch so it was in digital mode.

Also, my bird almost always yaws one direction when I spin up slowly (before it's even light on the skids), and then I reverse rudder the other direction and it stops as the gyro seems to kick in and take over.

This happened with the stock gyro and the GY401 now.


I will double check things when I get home, but if memory serves me right there are only 2 swithces on the stock gyro rev/norm and ds/std OOOOOOHHHHH, I need to switch the norm/rev on the gyro!

that makes sense as the super fast piro's felt like the gyro was trying to correct in the wrong direction and the tx settings did nothing. I'm pretty sure thats the problem now. Thanks a bunch!

[whirlydude]

I am using the 401, and I had the pyro also on spool up. I reversed the 401, and that cured the problem. I don't know what your using for a gyro, but if there is a way to reverse I would try it.

[The_Russian]

Q's

What are you guys using to thread the larger ball links into the back of the hs65mg's arm?

Where can I find information on centering servos and setting them up so the helo will fly properly.

Thanks!

[LockMD]

That was it, thanks BKF!

flipped the switch on the gyro itselft and viola I am back in the air and the tail is A LOT more solid not 100% but perty darn close!

Cant believe I over looked that very important detail.......thanks again.

[LockMD]

Q's

What are you guys using to thread the larger ball links into the back of the hs65mg's arm?

Where can I find information on centering servos and setting them up so the helo will fly properly.

Thanks!

I dont know about the ball links I'm not running the 65's

as for the servo, this helped me a great deal:
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=41692&page=6

Look at the first video under gyros - yeah there is gyro stuff but he explains alot about the servo too.

[BKF]

Play with the remote gain a bit... you should be able to lock it in pretty good with the 3400G.



That was it, thanks BKF!

flipped the switch on the gyro itselft and viola I am back in the air and the tail is A LOT more solid not 100% but perty darn close!

Cant believe I over looked that very important detail.......thanks again.