OS Hyper, #8 Glow Plug, Align 2in1 problems

[KG4HFV]

Did a quick search for this but didn't find anybody who quite had the same problem as me. Have a Hyper in my rex 600 Nitro and have about 11 gallons through it now. I have been going through a lot of glow plugs about one every two gallons. I am not running it lean. On a 70 degree day the max temp is 230 and when I really beat on it for everything its got it might get up to 240 degrees (farenheit). It might be a little rich if anything but just a little. Engine runs excelent and starts and runs perfect every time. Really impressed with its performance. No bearing issues yet. This glow plug problem has been since day one. When the plug goes bad I take it out and it looks like new. The coil is not white or bent. Clean and pristine also but just stops igniting. I use an align 2in1(older style) to ignite it. No dirty fuel or anything and havent used silicone on the engine either. Wildcat curtis youngblood 30% with 23% oil is my fuel choice since day one. I fly with other experienced fliers and they cant figure it out either. Could the 2in1 be giving it to much current or something? Somebody said check my fuel pickup tube in the fuel bottle for corrosion but it is ok. I just installed an OS bubbleless clunk but that hasnt fixed the problem either. Anybody have any sugestions or first hand encounters with this problem? It fails on the ground and not in the air. Dont mind changing the plug every once in a while but this is getting to be a little much......

[jbock24]

Im no pro but 230 degrees, seems hot to me I can put my finger on back of engine and keep it there. Im interested in seeing what everyone says.

[Bobbyk]

Where are you getting the temp from, if carbsmart is regulating the heat at 110-120 on the head, then that temp seems high.

Try the finger test on the back plate, one thing I noticed is the srews on the head comes loose after a while need to check that.

I read somewhere you can't tell by looking at the glow plug if its good or bad.

Thanks, hope you find the problem and share with us.

Robert

[aussiemick]

I would also say that the enigine is running very hot.

If you are measuring the temp at the head then it is a little hot, aim for the 200'F mark. Temp at the backplate will be lower because of the cooling effect of the fuel.

Mick

[rfequity1]

I've had problem with the 2/1 as well. Sometimes when I press the button to energize the glow plug is goes in and out intermittenly. Acted like the plug was bad. So I would keep pressing the button, take the plug out, drain fuel, etc. Finally it was suggested not to ground at the engine mount but move to one of the back plate screws. Problem solved. Is this similar to your issue?

[KG4HFV]

I am using farenheight here not celsius like carbsmart stuff. That is the max temp while flying and cranking on it hard. I have an onboard temp gauge that records the max head temp while flying. The back plate is cool when it gets landed obviously. Just hovering around it stays around 190 degrees F. There is another thread on here that discusses the "head temp" of 240 F is ok...none of this land it then check the backplate stuff....Its good in the beginning when breaking and getting it close but you have to have in flight temps to accurately tune the engine to its max without going to far and have concrete data not just how hot it feels. When you go to far there is a dramatic spike in temp that is evident you are to lean. I found it when I was tuning it for the first time and richened it imediately. There is a big difference between landed temps and "loaded" temps like a strait up out of sight climb or aileron tic-tocs while actually flying. If it was lean the hyper would have been blown up or needed new bearings many gallons ago. also a plug usually shows if run to lean like bent or white coil...the ground and the connections are ok I believe...never any problems there...I fly with somebody that runs his around 250 max with more flights than me but he uses a new 2in1 also. the difference in 230 and 250 is about 2 clicks leaner. I tried it 2 clicks leaner(250 deg.) once and 3 clicks gets a 280 max temp which is the temp spike of being to lean which I finally found after about 25 break in flights. 250 gets you around 1 1/4 turns Needle valve at 1 3/8 - 1 1/2 out (cold day/hot day) are my settings.

[KG4HFV]

p.s. the carbsmart has a range of 100, 110, 120, 130 Celsius right? I dont use one but 110 celsius comes out to be 230 degrees Fahrenheit. I like it a little on the rich side at 230 F or 110 C. also the piston and cylinder wall after 120 flights are like new...really no discoloring or marks.

[Vegas]

Same problem here. I think the 2n1 over amps the glow plug. Maybe we need a resistor between the clip and glow plug.

[KG4HFV]

I am going to do some testing tomorrow and see what this 2in1 is doing. There is a list of about 10 things that it could be but I am going to eliminate the 2in1 problem first.

[fogger]

interesting. What is the voltage of a standard glow igniter, 1.2V IE single cell nicad/nimh?

-Fog

[BarracudaHockey]

230 max in flight temp is hot.

[invertmast]

interesting. What is the voltage of a standard glow igniter, 1.2V IE single cell nicad/nimh?

-Fog

correct.. i believe mine show's 1.6 completely charged.. but what kind of amperage does one of these put out? sounds like a test for me to try at work tommorrow.

[KG4HFV]

invertmast..Ive met you before...you were headed to blacksheep and we were both raiding the trex parts cabinet at hobbytown in Mooresville right?

[invertmast]

invertmast..Ive met you before...you were headed to blacksheep and we were both raiding the trex parts cabinet at hobbytown in Mooresville right?

that was me. lol how ya been

[Pinecone]

Glow plugs are designed for about 1.5 volts. They predate hobby use of all these various recahrgeable batteries, so used a single cell carbon zinc battery back in the day.

1.2 volts is the nominal voltage of NiCd, like 3.7 volts i s the nomial voltage of a lipo cell. Voltages are higher and lower at full charge and discharged.

[lovespicyfood]

So forgive me if it this sounds dumb...I'm not up on electrical matters...

But if you were having a problem "burning" out glow plugs and your motor was tuned properly, couldn't you just use a hotter plug?

[fogger]

The current that will go through the plug is proportional to the resistance of the plug and the voltage applied. The plug resistance probably hasn't changed. So the only way you are going to get more current throught the plug is by increasing the voltage applied. So that's why I am asking about the typical battery voltage, so we can measure the output of the align regulator's glow plug output and see if it's significantly different. I suspect it will not be, but someone needs to measure it.

-Fog

[RCHeliJim]

I just picked one of these up, I will measure the voltage output today - but I suspect its within an acceptable range. My standard glow driver runs about 1.6 volts or so freshly charged. And as mentioned above, the amp output is determined by what the plug draws - not what the unit is capable of delivering, so the amps being pulled shouldnt really be different than what a normal igniter draws - if the voltages are the same.

Anyway, I am sure someone else will post the voltage before I get a chance to, but if not I will post them once I get a chance to try it out.

[fogger]

actually Jim you make a good point, the typical batteries may be dropping in voltage under load while the align driver is not. That would be interesting to see also, if you can test the voltage under the load of driving the plug...

-Fog

[RCHeliJim]

Well, I checked it out under the load of a plug and without. Without the plug its 1.49 volts. With the plug it runs at 1.2 volts on mine - which is almost exactly what I see when using a standard 1 cell glow driver.

[fogger]

cool, thanks for getting the numbers. Safe to rule out the align 2in1 as a problem then I think...

-Fog

[lovespicyfood]

Well, I checked it out under the load of a plug and without. Without the plug its 1.49 volts. With the plug it runs at 1.2 volts on mine - which is almost exactly what I see when using a standard 1 cell glow driver.

Thanks for clearing this up! One of the things I enjoy most about this hobby is tinkering with these machines, almost as much as flying them! The only caveat is that you have to have a few of them around so that despite inevitable crashes and mods, you always have at least one bird rtf! :D

[KG4HFV]

Well, I checked it out under the load of a plug and without. Without the plug its 1.49 volts. With the plug it runs at 1.2 volts on mine - which is almost exactly what I see when using a standard 1 cell glow driver.

Yea thats about what I got also for voltage. The plug draws almost 4 amps though. That is within range I think but am not positive...this plug problem has been happening since day one even when I was breaking the engine in and was very rich. It took 30 tanks to be completely tuned and I was already replacing them at that number. Could it be that the ignitor is staying on too long? I fly, shut engine off, fuel, press ignitor button, start and imediatelly go again. Could engine already be hot and when I hit the ignitor button the plug be getting really hot?? The plug always fails deep down inside and has no continuity. Looks like new though....This plug is a minor problem but trying to get all the kinks worked out for smooth flying all day :)