Attaching a Z20...

[Cralis]

My Z20 is reay to be attached to my 550.

Engine has a Yellow, a Red and a Black wire...
Helicopter has a Black, and Blue and a Red.

So, Red to Red, Black to Black and Blue to Yellow?

[istandalone]

that's the beauty of brushless motors. it makes no difference what-so-ever which way you hook it up. if when you hook it up it spins the wrong way, swap any two wires to reverse it. so join the wires any which way you fancy, at worst you'll have to switch two of them.

[Cralis]

Thanlks for that!
Ok, connected, and 2 minute hover in the garden.. Seems good... Did 2 minutes as there's a guy collecting log info, and wanted to know how much the EP550 takes from my APlus 2200 packs in a 2 minute hover.

Sounds pretty good eh? Nice engine sound, compared to the rougher Gaui stock 1100KV. I've hooked up a 980Kv, and it seems fine. After 2 minutes, packs are warm, not hot, and I can kep my finger on the motor after the flight...

Waiting for the packs to cool before I check what I took out.

[istandalone]

part of what i love about the 550 is the sound. it's very quiet and smooth.

[Mikej]

part of what i love about the 550 is the sound. it's very quiet and smooth.

Agreed - I think that the gears must help with that nice whiny noise as well

[istandalone]

plus less engine/gear noise the more you can hear those blades beating the air! cralis, what pinion/main gears are you running? are you using the 19t or 20t OWB pinion? what kind of lipos? i might buy one of those z20's so i can get better flight times through a more efficient motor. i'm hopeing with my 1000kv rcp, 13t pinion and 3300mah packs i can get 8 or 9 minutes. 4-5 minutes just ain't enough! just when i feel my brain and fingers are working as one, it's time to land and switch packs.

[Cralis]

Not sure what the OWB pinion is... if you tell me, I can check, but I am running a 13T on the engine, and that's OK for what I do.. Maybe a little slow on the head, but so far, it's OK. My packs are the cheap APlus packs, 2200 25C.

OK, just did a 4 minute flights.

Results:
Air Temp: 34.5 degrees
Ground temp: 62 degrees Tar, 53 degrees sandy grass areas.
(Bare feet wasn't a clever move)
After exactly 4 minutes:
Top pack: 46.1 degrees
Lower pack: 45 degrees
Engine: average 45 degrees
ESC: 55 degrees.


1000mah put into toip pack, and 1009 put back into lower pack.

[Cralis]

Todays attempt at 6 minutes was poor... It's a bit windy and overcast here today, but decided to go for it anyway. Also, made slight adjustments to pich curve... I was sitting at -6 to +9.. Changed to -4 to +9.

Anyways, started up, and there was a waggle... Tail waggle and low head speed, but as I increased to hover, it went away, mostly .. but still there. Hovered about a bit.. but there was definitly a waggle. So, landed, upped the throttle curve a hit.. so now I have a 0, 80, 100 type curve..

Seemed better, but when I needed to descend, the headspeed slows, as it wood, and the tail would vibrate/waggle quite a bit...

Any ideas how to get rid of that?

Needless to stay - I never got a full 6 minutes, as most of it was on the ground, tinkering with the curves.. :(

[istandalone]

there are so many possible issues with the h550 tail it's hard to say. oh, the OWB pinion is the pinion that is on the One Way Bearing shaft, that spins right next to the main gear.

[Zoobie]

A dumb one that I came across the other day is I forgot to tighten the boom support screw after adjusting tail belt tension and the tail vibrated badly, nipped it up and problems gone? Has anyone else noticed this? I should post this as a separate thread for others.

[Cralis]

I noticed my main blades were a BIT slack.. as were my tail blades. I've tightened them a wee bit.. but don't think that's the problem. I think it's a head speed issue, mixed with something else. When I added speed to the head, it seemed better, but now I am possibly masking an issue?

Blade tracking is dead on... So, a bit confused. Will do another flight once the wind dies..

[mjdee14]

Cralis

Not sure what your level of expirtise is but since you asked the question on the brushless I'm going to assume that your faily new...and if you know all this I apologise.

The 550 has had some tail issues...but first,



Did you properly set it up in non-heading mode so the heli will hover with no trim required almost by itself?

Did you disconnect the tail servo and ENSURE the linkage moves freely with no binding whatsoever and there is no looseness in any of the connectors?

Did you check the tail case and ensure it is tight on the boom?

Did you check belt tension ?

Are you at zero deg pitch at midstick or 3/4 stick?

Give us the answers to the above and maybe someone will see something that is out of line...and check the items above for looseness/binding....

If you can post pictures of the tail servo side and tail area...

Again, sorry if this is old hat to you, but it may help someone else....

** updated, realized equipment was posted on bottom of post ***

[Cralis]

Cralis

Not sure what your level of expirtise is but since you asked the question on the brushless I'm going to assume that your faily new...and if you know all this I apologise.



Not brand new, but I am not 100% sure of my knowledge, so your assumption sits fine with me. :)


The 550 has had some tail issues...but first,

I never knew this... So, I may not be alone..


Did you properly set it up in non-heading mode so the heli will hover with no trim required almost by itself?

I'll be honest here. No. It's close to right, but I'm battling to get it to hold straight in non-HH-mode... I'll work on that this weekend.


Did you disconnect the tail servo and ENSURE the linkage moves freely with no binding whatsoever and there is no looseness in any of the connectors?

Yes


Did you check the tail case and ensure it is tight on the boom?

Yes
Did you check belt tension ?


Are you at zero deg pitch at midstick or 3/4 stick?

I am at 0 pitch at mid stick, when I have a 0,25,50,75,100 pitch curve.



If you can post pictures of the tail servo side and tail area...

I'll get some posted this evening..

[mjdee14]

Have you played with the gyro gain at all?

Does it seem like the tail "hunting" and won't lock into position?

Several have had problems with tail wag but usually it has been in one direction...stops OK on one side but not the other.

Some have had to go to a metal tail....and usually it's the guys running higher headspeeds.

If you have a 14t or 15t pinion you might try that...

The reason I asked about the Zero pitch, was sometimes as you spool up with negative pitch the tail can't overcome the torque at lower tail speed.

The 9254 should a have a zero delay setting, you might try just putting in a little to see if it changes...


Does it do this at hover so it's noticible when making your adjustments?

Mike D

[Cralis]

Mike, I don't think it's a hunting movement. It's more a rapid vibration, mainly visible at lower headspeeds... I'm running a 13T pinion on the motor, so the head might be a bit slow.

[mjdee14]

don't know if the link will work, if not do a search for tail vibrations and you'll see a few of the threads.

http://www.helifreak.com/search.php?searchid=755079

Not sure if it's a resonance problem or what....so far I have been lucky with mine....but I still bought a metal tail...haven't installed it yet....

I honstly don't think anyone has nailed down the "exact cause" of the vibs...

Maybe someone else will chime in on this thread

Mike D

[istandalone]

i do believe that cralis is having the same issue as i had, and the suck of it is, i'm not entirely sure what i did to fix it. i switched to the trex e600 grips that are thrusted, and tightened the crap out of the tail case. even with the tail case tightened as much as possible it was still able to twist about 2mm if i torqued on it. some thin ca fixed that, but i suppose you could try to shim it, maybe with some thin tape. also, i've found the belt on this bird needs to be just right. if your used to tensioning a 450 belt, this one is way different and needs to be tighter. someone once posted the magic number for slack in the belt as 6mm. it's hard to measure just how much slack there is, but keep fooling with it. i think the tail belt is most of the problem.

[Cralis]

OK, I upped my throttle curve... It's now 0, 64, 78, 91, 100. Pitch is linear 37 to 100 (-4 to +10)

Tail wag is a LOT less... Infact, no wag. However, I notice is wags a bit when it gets some side wind.. so maybe a gyro setting?

I did my 6 minute hover in the garden... Gusty conditions, but managed. Waiting for my packs to cool before charging to see what I took out, but the packs were only 44 (Average all around the packs) degrees, engine was 41 degrees, ESC was 47 degrees. Air temp was 24 degrees, slight wind - gusting. Flying was a hover in a small area, between 1 foot and 6 feet up...

That's pretty good for 6 minutes - the temp, that is, eh?

I'll report what I put back soon.. Packs were the Aplus 2200 25c packs..

[Cralis]

1459 put back!
That's 66% used for a 6 minute hover!
Happy! http://www.rcheliaddict.co.uk/testvb/images/smilies/smile.gif
I'm going to up the head speed, and keep flight to 6 minutes then... 6 minutes is plenty for 2 * 2200 packs on a .30 sized elecitric. Well impressed with the Z20...

[mjdee14]

1459 put back!
That's 66% used for a 6 minute hover!
Happy! http://www.rcheliaddict.co.uk/testvb/images/smilies/smile.gif
I'm going to up the head speed, and keep flight to 6 minutes then... 6 minutes is plenty for 2 * 2200 packs on a .30 sized elecitric. Well impressed with the Z20...

Sounds Good...6 minutes....the Z20 is a great motor for the 550..for us non-3d types.

So maybe the headspeed was more of your problem....I would imagine in a wind you are going to get some movement of the tail as the gyro fights to keep a heading.

Turn up the gain a little till it wags and back off. I can't seem to get mine to wag much in hover no matter how far up the gain is. But I fly at 68% on the gyro channel, DX7 radio. seems to work OK.

Mike

[vicrc]

I was going to order the Z30 but with all the talk about the Z20 being efficient, I went that route and I don't regret it one bit, only regrets was purchasing the H550 with stock motor :badair:. I can fly the Z20 for 10 minutes with a pair of 3300mah packs, its awesome.

[Mikej]

I'm definitely going to have to get one - is the Tonix Z20A 980Kv the same as the Z-Power Z20A 980Kv the same - the specs are exactly the same, but I want to make sure that I get the right one.

Thanks,
Mike.

[ke6d]

Yes, be sure to get the 980Kv version. Use either a 14T or 15T pinion for this motor to get good flight time. You won't regret switching the motor.

Dan

[istandalone]

you won't notice the "wag" really in a hover. it's most noticable in forward flight. i can have my gyro gain almost on 100% and it won't wag in a hover. as soon as you fly forward though it does.
so the verdict is that the tonix z20 980kv is the same as the zpower z20 980kv? same motor just re-badged?

[Cralis]

But I fly at 68% on the gyro channel, DX7 radio. seems to work OK.Mike

Will give that a bash, thanks Mike. No wind today, no cloud.. Perrrrfect for flying.. BUT... We're moving to Australia in 2 weeks... so I do have chores! :arggg: