check out this video (brown out problem?) IT IS STATIC!

[dieselracer]

Rick, if you noticed in the first video, i started out on the tail boom. There was nothing there, but as soon as i got to the gears, it lit up.....

Now, just a theory at this point, but it appears the 450 isolates the ESD looking at the gears and configuration, the 450 uses gears made of the same material in the reduction gear and the drive gear. It appears the 500 has gears made from two different materials.

Also, the configuration of the tail drive systems are slightly different. One the 450 the drive pulley sits on the top of the shaft, separated from the drive gear by a bearing in a bearing block. On the 500 the drive gear and drive pulley are in closer proximity next to each other.

Possibly changing the material of the tail drive gear would help.... I don't know.

Would grounding the main shaft to the frame, motor, boom, esc etc.. Help?

[bobby619]

Would having the metal bearing blocks and grounding the motor mount ground the main shaft?

[torkboy]

450..reason being no static in the boom area...metal tail case/bearing blocks.
500....no metal.. so its not grounded.

As to why our 450s are not affected by this, is because we mount the rx's far enough away from the "static" that its prolly not affected.

But with the 500, the rx is close to static everywhere, boom and main gear.

I asked Chase if he could test again in the areas of the rx tray, and the lower tray as well(common rx placements)... and see what "livewire" picks up.

[ChasHeliCop]

I am thinking that replacing the tail drive gear possibly with a metal gear may solve the problem. I have to figure out what actually stops the charge on the 450 first.

[ChasHeliCop]

That's why I located my receiver on the bottom tray..... see thread, Rick Lohr is going to be making these modified Rx trays that don't flex like the stock ones to mount the gyro on.

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=60954

[Justin911]

450..reason being no static in the boom area...metal tail case/bearing blocks.
500....no metal.. so its not grounded.

As to why our 450s are not affected by this, is because we mount the rx's far enough away from the "static" that its prolly not affected.

But with the 500, the rx is close to static everywhere, boom and main gear.

I asked Chase if he could test again in the areas of the rx tray, and the lower tray as well(common rx placements)... and see what "livewire" picks up.

I would also like to see that. I am curious. where the receiver sits on the frame, it could be in side a static bubble that can get cut out when it because charged. I wonder if placing the receiver on the bottom tray and not the receiver mount could solve that problem and get it farther away from the main gear static.

[bobby619]

450..reason being no static in the boom area...metal tail case/bearing blocks.
500....no metal.. so its not grounded.

As to why our 450s are not affected by this, is because we mount the rx's far enough away from the "static" that its prolly not affected.

But with the 500, the rx is close to static everywhere, boom and main gear.

I asked Chase if he could test again in the areas of the rx tray, and the lower tray as well(common rx placements)... and see what "livewire" picks up.
So would the boom have static on a Trex 450s? It has a plastic boom block.

[torkboy]

So would the boom have static on a Trex 450s? It has a plastic boom block.

Chas will be finding out what fixes the static, whether it is a metal tail pulley, metal bearing blocks, or a metal boom block. He believes it is a pulley, which I believe too, as it grounds the belt(the problem) to metal.

[ChasHeliCop]

Rx placement on my 500 with a modified Rx tray for the gyro.

see thread for mod
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=60954

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38150&d=1202670764 (http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38150&d=1202670764)

[ChasHeliCop]

So would the boom have static on a Trex 450s? It has a plastic boom block.


i have a 450 V2 it has an aluminum anodized boom block and bearing blocks. Also, one other observation i made, and i could be wrong, but it appears the boom block on the 500 may be made of a different material than the 600. It almost appears like there is "possibly" carbon fiber in the boom block. That's totally a guess !

[ChasHeliCop]

Good piont. The two different materials is a key ingredient in the Vander thingy.
Did you have lockout problems? If you shut the lights do you see any ESD?

I had a "brownout" before I relocated my gyro and Rx.... I haven't tried running it up with the lights out. Might do that tomorrow too.

[Justin911]

how has the new receiver mount worked for you? any problems since you have moved it?

[ChasHeliCop]

I haven't had any problems since, but that's no guarantee, i think Fireup had his Rx down there and had a lock out. Any way you look at it, taking the gyro off the boom block and the Rx on the bottom tray puts it further away from the ESD.

[torkboy]

I haven't had any problems since, but that's no guarantee, i think Fireup had his Rx down there and had a lock out. Any way you look at it, taking the gyro off the boom block and the Rx on the bottom tray puts it further away from the ESD.

Unless you have a static shield(metal plate supplied) for it, then it should be fine. At least I think that would block it?

[Justin911]

ok thats good to know. i am gonna mount my RX on the bottom tray tomorrow and give it a shot... I have my gyro mounted on the boom block for now and I may leave it there. we'll see

Jason. where would you put that metal tray?

[torkboy]

ok thats good to know. i am gonna mount my RX on the bottom tray tomorrow and give it a shot... I have my gyro mounted on the boom block for now and I may leave it there. we'll see

Jason. where would you put that metal tray?

Its the metal plate that comes with the 611 and spartan. Gryo->tape->plate->tape->Heli.

[ChasHeliCop]

ok thats good to know. i am gonna mount my RX on the bottom tray tomorrow and give it a shot... I have my gyro mounted on the boom block for now and I may leave it there. we'll see

Jason. where would you put that metal tray?

Hey Justin,

Look at the first vid again, do you think it's possible to get feed back thru the gyro to the Rx ? Also, something I forgot to mention, the screws holding the gyro together are on the bottom where it mounts. The boom block is statically charged, that's why i relocated it.

[Justin911]

ahh damn... something the 401 doesn't come with!!! GREAT

[torkboy]

ahh damn... something the 401 doesn't come with!!! GREAT

Hehe yea..

AND remember those random tail wags? ;) I think we found a problemo.

[Justin911]

Hey Justin,

Look at the first vid again, do you think it's possible to get feed back thru the gyro to the Rx ? Also, something I forgot to mention, the screws holding the gyro together are on the bottom where it mounts. The boom block is statically charged, that's why i relocated it.

that is an excellent point.. I didn't even think of that until you mentioned it. so maybe I will relocate it also!

Hehe yea..

AND remember those random tail wags? ;) I think we found a problemo.

YEA JASON! I think so

[ChasHeliCop]

Ok guys, I will do those other tests in the morning, plus one other idea I had. Have a good night.

[Justin911]

awesome that sounds good.. what other tests are you going to do? I look forward to them

[motomanmel]

Guys, I had a problem myself today with a lock out.
I had just built the 500 and set it up perfectly. Today I went to fly it for the first time @ Arbor park and 3 min in the Air My servos went to full Neg Pitch and the Heli went DOWN...:arggg:

I have the upgraded Aluminum Tail and a 6200 receiver. It just happens that Align is only 5 min form Arbor so we took the heli to Align and Talk to Andy (He is supper nice). He said I would have better luck with the 7000 Receiver and be sure to mount it at the bottom try and spry the Belt with Silicone Spray. This should fix the problem.
But Now I don't feel like taking it out until we find the problem.

Its funny, Before I built the 500 I read these posts and thought all you guys were doing something wrong.. Now I take all my thoughts back and Want to help with the issue.

I design Motorcycle Parts and my Specialty is Plastic Injection. I would say If the belt was made with a non conductive material like a silicone rubber I don't think we would have a problem. I can try taking a Mavrikk Belt for a Raptor and putting it into a T-rex 500 and see what happens with static. I will have to change the Gears But maybe Kevin can Help me machine a tail gear for it.

Lets try it...

[Justin911]

I say GO FOR IT!!! what ever helps... the TT will be huge when it comes out..

[motomanmel]

Justin, How many people do you know that had this problem with a AR7000?