check out this video (brown out problem?) IT IS STATIC!

[HELINHAWAII]

Maybe I'm mistaken but won't WD40 break down the belt seeing as it is from petroleum distilates. You know the whole oil and rubber thing???

[JC]

AND... lubing every flight is, IMHO, overkill. I wouldn't use WD40, but it is your heli.

[ChasHeliCop]

Ok, I didn't know this, but it gets better..... see the link below

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1998-05/892692114.Ch.r.html

"The primary function of this quaternary ammonium salt is [static] electricity
conduction and dissipation. An important side benefit is the lubricity it
confers to the fabric, reducing triboelectric buildup."

[booger]

I know this is gonna sound crazy but if we lube the gears with a little hamburger grease it should help prevent this. I just had to say it I'm sorry

[rcmarty]

I'm trying to figure out how were getting an AC signal. That tick picks up on ac voltage.

Another observation : The 600's are good (all white gears) 600n (grey (grey/white combo ok)) , the 450's are all good (all blue gears) , the only mismatch we have so far is the 500 - white maingears and a black tail drive.

And the pinion is of a different look/material.

And the outer diameter of the boom is alot closer to the belt than on the other models.

Just throwing out a few things to consider.

Martin :)

[th3tick]

rcmarty; I think you're on to something there. What would be cool is if one could test the anti-static on the main gear, then test it on the lower tail-drive gear. I'd put a nickel on all that matters being the tail-drive gearing.

Fascinating results all around...

[motomanmel]

Guys I tried moving the receiver to the bottom tray and the Gyro to the top of the boom and the ESC under the battery tray. Then I sprayed the Heli down with Static Spray.
I flew several Time today with out any problems.
I think this works for sure. Yesterdays crash was within the first 3 min.
Its nice to be back in the Air without the headache of thinking your going to go Down....Thanks Andy and Bob for your assistance today. We all owe the rest of you guys a lot for doing the videos. Thanks for making the sport.

[Finless]

I am not really worried about the gear static. Realize that anything traveling through air can develop a charge. What I am worried about is where that charge is allowed to accumulate "storage" until it becomes enough to arc like the mikado picture I have show.
The gears are not massive enough I don't think to do that. Sure they will build a potential but not enough to draw an arc. The boom however is a LARGE accumulator! This is how a Van De Graph generator works. If it wasn't for the big metal bell on the top of a Van De Graph then the unit would not be able to store enough charge to do anything or at least not enough to do what one does with the big bell. The isolated boom is a storage device!

My .00003 cents... I wouldn't worry about the main gear or many helis would be having a BIG problem. The helis with static issues have isolated booms.

FYI WD40 is BAD for belts! I wouldnt use it as pure silicon oil is easily available and your belt will love you for it :)

Bob

[Justin911]

ok so i will stop with the WD40... i only used it once... what spray should I get for the belt to make it love me? haha

[ChasHeliCop]

And the pinion is of a different look/material.

And the outer diameter of the boom is alot closer to the belt than on the other models.

Just throwing out a few things to consider.

Martin :)

Additionally, if you compare to the 600, the boom block appears to be made from a different material, it apears to possibly have graphite or carbon fiber, some material as a strengthening agent would be my guess. Possibly conductive.

Bob, after spooling up, there does seem to be a large accumulation of static stored in the boom. The meter flashes all the way down the boom after it has been shut down.

[Finless]

Bob, after spooling up, there does seem to be a large accumulation of static stored in the boom. The meter flashes all the way down the boom after it has been shut down.

Yep... thats why I am saying what I am... It's an electron collector :)

Bob

[rcmarty]

First off i'd like to thank chas for all the time you've put in. I'm sure many appreciate it.

I still don't understand how were getting ac but the tick is saying we are.

Has anyone tried :

- same test without the boom/block and all ? see if we can get the maingear to set off tick ? Might support the ungrounded motor mount radiating into the frames via the 3phase "AC" motor.

- if that passes with flying colors , put the boom block and tail drive gear on (no boom/belt/tail) and see if we can get the tick to go backing up the different gears on each other theory.

Martin :)

[rcmarty]

Tangent ...

Would using the aluminum ended boom supports provide to ground out the boom to the frame ?

If you can keep the potential the same on the entire machine there won't be a place to grond out to (bird on a high tension wire threory)

Of course you will need a metal fin holder or some bolts a tad long (bite into boom)

Martin :)

[ChasHeliCop]

Has anyone tried :

- same test without the boom/block and all ? see if we can get the maingear to set off tick ? Might support the ungrounded motor mount radiating into the frames via the 3phase "AC" motor.

Martin :)

Martin,

I just did this 20 minutes ago, I haven't uploaded yet, but I can if ya'll want me to. That's another hour. Basically removing the entire Boom block/boom/tail section, you get current around the top of the motor at the mount and ALOT of discharge at the ESC. Additionally, and I found this interesting, the frame is carrying the current. When you put the meter on the edge of the frame, you get a reading around the outside perimeter of the frame. Also, while measuring the frame, I touched it with my other hand (grounding it) and the signal dissipated.

[Finless]

Ground the neg side of the pack to the frame... I bet you will still see a siganl at the boom... Just a test....

THANKS for doing this Chas man.... THis is going to help a lot of people understand what could be happening to them.

Bob

[rcmarty]

I'm thinking there's some merrit to the grounding of the motor mount to the neg. While not the all in 1 solution a factor in the mix.

How about the motor mount grounded without the boom and all ? One would think you'd get a clean frame.

Are you saying you were holding the tick in 1 hand and touching the frame with the other ? You may have brought yourself and the tick up to the same potential (charge) as the heli therefore the tick wouldn't have anything to pick up. Not saying for sure , just a possibilty to ponder

MArtin :)

[th3tick]

Are you saying you were holding the tick in 1 hand...

I must say, I'm finding this "the tick" terminology just a bit disturbing...

[ChasHeliCop]

Ground the neg side of the pack to the frame... I bet you will still see a siganl at the boom... Just a test....

THANKS for doing this Chas man.... THis is going to help a lot of people understand what could be happening to them.

Bob

Sure thing Bob, I will do that one in the morning. :smokin:

[dieselracer]

So ideally we want to ground everything to the negitive battery? I am currently building mine. and am thinking about grounding the tail shaft, boom, front shaft, frame, motor, neg ESC, main shaft and frame all togther. Does that sound okay?

[PTFlyer]

So ideally we want to ground everything to the negitive battery? I am currently building mine. and am thinking about grounding the tail shaft, boom, front shaft, frame, motor, neg ESC, main shaft and frame all togther. Does that sound okay?

I'm think I'm just going to wrap my whole heli in aluminum foil.... :~

[fireup]

Thanks for all the testing Chas, have you test it again after several flights or after the anti-static spray has dried? Wondering how long it will last before another application is needed.

[dieselracer]

I'm think I'm just going to wrap my whole heli in aluminum foil.... :~

Well im using an aluminum frame. So im thinking about grounding everything to it.

[HeliBurns]

Bob, so implement a "conductive path"....so that the boom..."charge accumulator" does not acquire enough charge to reek havoc......:).....no problem...

On the issue of yet again repeating the "ground the floating motor mount case" test, again what will be the "test setup"? I certainly hope that people will at least connect their scope negative to the common single point of ground, otherwise inconsistent results will be recorded...which just confuses the purpose of testing........:)

With regards to pics posted of people's T500's, I think some of us have taken certain liberties with respect to our electronics placement...perhaps we should review Bob's electrical placement 101 again....and try to keep the RX away from the ESC, etc....etc....etc....come on guys.......you ya think Bob's just lucky?.....:)

[ChasHeliCop]

Thanks for all the testing Chas, have you test it again after several flights or after the anti-static spray has dried? Wondering how long it will last before another application is needed.

Hey Kevin,

I tested again after six flights today, after each flight, I still had no discharge from the gear. I only applied the spray once. But, I also checked the boom after the flights, and there is still a build up the entire length of the boom. I am going to try to work on that in the morning. I have a couple of ideas, but any suggestions, PM me.

[kraaijer]

Let's build a Farraday cage around the rx... ;-) that'll solve it!!!