check out this video (brown out problem?) IT IS STATIC!

[Finless]

:lolol:lolol:lolol:lolol:lolol

I remember way back on RR days when people were having glitch problems some guy came along and tried to SELL this cage insisting that it was needed... Thank god it wasn't ;)

Bob

[fireup]

Let's build a Farraday cage around the rx... ;-) that'll solve it!!!

Just wrap your Rx with a sheet of aluminum foil.:YeaBaby: This will block out any alien influences also.

[kraaijer]

:lolol:lolol:lolol:lolol:lolol

I remember way back on RR days when people were having glitch problems some guy came along and tried to SELL this cage insisting that it was needed... Thank god it wasn't ;)

Bob
Wasn't me...

[JC]

Chas,
You need to edit your avatar to have static discharges coming from the wizards hands. ;)

From noting the time of your last post and all the activity you had again today, we may not hear from you again until noon.

[Socal500]

My .00003 cents... I wouldn't worry about the main gear or many helis would be having a BIG problem. The helis with static issues have isolated booms.

Bob

What about the GF frames then? These have isolated booms but I have not seen any reports of issues with this frame and a couple that have switched from CF to GF and their problems went away.

Could it be possible that the main gears, which are basically connected to the belt via the pulley gear, is actually the other end of the VDG Generator. They are also isolated from the frame. An image comes to mind of that RX antenna someone posted that had the burned tip... which happened to be pointed right at the edge of the main gear.

Oh and you probably will still detect something on the tail with the frame grounded as I did.

[dieselracer]

Hey. will using a revco pinion, that is conductive, along with grounding the case of the motor to the frame/esc, help with the static coming from the main gears?


Here are some pictures on what i am working on. But it wont be ready for at least two months:(. I found that with the aluminum tail. it only required some sanding to make ot conductive from the tail shaft all the way to the boom. them with some wire i jumped it to my aluminum frame along with the front belt shaft. I grounded the main shaft from the main bearing. and found that sanding the motor mount made it conductive. I found that the motor shaft that the motors case is conductive (where its not black). so if i put a conductive revco pinion, then sand the top of the motor. The pinion would be conductive all the way to the frame which will be grounded to the neg of the ESC. would that help with the static coming from the main gear? SO far i got a connection between the tail shaft to the main gear, all the frame and motor mount to. I then used a double A battery and tested the voltage, came in at 1.37. then put the battery at the tail shaft running the current though the heli, then i probed around, frame, motor mount, main shaft. and i still got 1.37. so that means it has no ressistance right?

Let me know what you guys think. I dont want to mess anything up.

[ChasHeliCop]

Chas,
From noting the time of your last post and all the activity you had again today, we may not hear from you again until noon.

Ok, it's not noon yet, can I go back to bed ?



Oh and you probably will still detect something on the tail with the frame grounded as I did.

Yep, I am assuming I will also, but got to be thorough, right ? Basically, I am not trying to prove or disprove anything, just trying to isolate the problem and come up with a "fix" at least temporary, until something else breaks.

Not sure about the GF frames, didn't Kevin order some ?

[Socal500]

I checked my boom today using the GreenLee Gt-11 voltage detector and got nothing. I am completely grounded with no spray.

According to this detector its range is 50-1000 VAC so apparently if anything is being generated, its below that range. It would be interesting to get a an actual measurment. Its my understanding that a static arc requires about 500 volts. Just rubbing this detector on the sleeve of my jacket lightly I was able to set it off so just that little bit of friction must have created a minimum of 50 volts.

The main gears are isolated from the conductive frame afterall so it could build there. Even if they are not contributing to this effect they are providing a conductive path to other components. This might be why we dont see the same reports on GF frames. The VDG Generator effect may still be present on the GF frames, maybe not, but that conductive path is now gone.

I have no doubt that climate condition plays a huge role since I was only able to measure slightly over 2 volts on my ungrounded system at the boom and the same detector being used in the videos does not register any activity.

[drdot]

fwiw...

Still don't see the static as the main issue...Too many flyers, including me, build the heli, then go fly it with no issues...Grounding everthing brings us back to the Vigor..grounding that beast helped with PCM...until the ground failed in the air...

John.

[Socal500]

I just tried something.

Ok the detector has a range of 50-1000 so I should not detect anything below 50.

Taking all electronic devices out of play I turned the head backwards by hand. This engages all the gears. The detector picked up activity so just by hand I was able to generate at least 50 volts. My frame, belt, pulleys, etc are all grounded.

Turning the head in normal clockwise direction, which turns the bottom gear only, the detector picked up nothing. So that would mean the 50 volts or more that is being generated is coming from the pinion gear and main gear.... which by the way are both isolated from the rest of the heli.

[rcmarty]

Interesting stuff here.

I'm still baffled on how were getting AC voltage here (only source is the esc/motor leads and motor) but were getting something so i'm going to be happy not knowing why.

I also had another thought last night (AC thing buggs me) I wonder if the head spinning (flybar) can somehow cause the tick (volt checker - hehe) to go off. I personally don't trust these things and pinpointing something is something these don't do well.

If we can get the tick going good , i'd like to see if the head were removed if it would yeild the same results (just pull the jesus bolt and pop off the links on the swash). and retest

socal .. interesting find there (spin head backwards) .

Now .. might i ask a bit more on the situation. Powered up the esc ? radio on ? or just everything off and twirling the head by hand ?

I have a hunch that the motor to the main gear via the pinion gear is making the tick go off. Being the tick didn't go off when spinning normally without power didn't give any readings (i think the boom can be generating some power but this isolates it for us)

A 3phase motor and a generator are the same thing , one is driving and one is being driven. So spinning the head backwards will spin the motor and generate a 3ph ac voltage on the esc/motor leads.

I'm going to ask around at work tommorow if i remeber , if the shaft of the motor would have a voltage present on it.

Another thing i'd like to see is a brushed (yeah i said brushed) motor used and a same testing done , or better yet an isolated way of spinning the gears , this way we could find the source of all this ac voltage.

Martin :)

[Socal500]

The test where I turned the head by hand was done without the battery connected so there was no other power source.

[Socal500]

socal .. interesting find there (spin head backwards) .

Now .. might i ask a bit more on the situation. Powered up the esc ? radio on ? or just everything off and twirling the head by hand ?.

Battery was not connected and transmitter off.

I have a hunch that the motor to the main gear via the pinion gear is making the tick go off. Being the tick didn't go off when spinning normally without power didn't give any readings (i think the boom can be generating some power but this isolates it for us).

The pinion is coated or anodized so it is not conducting. There is not continuity from it to the motor shaft. The boom is grounded so it is no longer isolated and no longer generating. Also when spinning by hand in the normal direction, the main gear does not spin.

The static is being generated by the main gear and pinon though but with the main gear being non conductive there is no way to ground it.

[PTFlyer]

I just spun mine by hand and got no reading at all from my tester (50-1000V)

it's a new build it's all together, only the servo's and motor are installed, no other electrics in yet....no charge at the boom either........couldn't get a reading anywhere.......BTW it's a GF frame......

[Socal500]

Could be the CF frame causing all the trouble then. Did you spin the head backwards? You have to turn the main gear and motor.

[PTFlyer]

I spun it in both directions so both gears were spinning and so only the tail gear was spinning as well as the motor, I was spinning it as fast as I could by hand....checked all over the heli and couldn't get a reading anywhere.


I have the metal tail as well as the metal bearing blocks, if that makes any difference.

[Socal500]

I have never tested one before ever actually running it. Check again after you actually run it up once or twice. Of course make sure the detector is on :) I have a third 500 being dropped off either tonight or tomorrow. It has never been run so I can try it out on that one.

[PTFlyer]

I will do that..........it will be a few of days before I can run it up as I am still waiting on a couple of battery packs come in.

[Socal500]

I just got the 3rd 500. This one has never been run. I was able to get a reading at the main gear when turning the head backwards within 10 seconds. This is with the tip of the probe about 1/4 from the gear but not touching.

Your GF frame may have something to do with this but I couldnt say until I had chance to test one myself.

[bobby619]

Ask not what your helifreakers can do for you. Ask what you can do for helifreak.

Tomorrow (for sh*ts and giggles) i plan on going to Lowes to buy one of those probe things. I will attempt to determine if the new blingin metal parts make a difference.

My 500 features the following:
--CF Frame
--Metal bearing blocks
--Metal tail case and slider
--Metal hex bolts in the boom clamp/block
--NO GROUNDING

I will have a full report ready by EOD tomorrow. :-)

[HeliBurns]

bobby619, a JFK quote?????

[HeliBurns]

bobby619, I'm sure that your analysis with "a probe thing"(without an understanding of what you're even doing) will provide the exact solution to whatever you might think the problem is.....:)

I always refer any electronic questions to "Lowes"...and in a pinch "Home Depot"......I always upgrade my computers there......:)

"shiites and giggles" is a strange way to imply that you might not approve of how people try to improvise in order to solve a problem that you only read about....

[Astennu]

I wanna thank all of you guys especially Chad for putting to much effort in this. I was also reading other forum's about these issues and was also thinking about grounding everything. Already made a ground to the motor and bought some teflon spray for the belt.

But you guy's are doing a great job is there is anything i could do to help i would love to.

(My bird wont see any flight in the next 2 weeks ESC is dead getting a new Jazz 80a ASAP i'm not gonna wait for a replacement)

[warpspeed]

bobby619, I'm sure that your analysis with "a probe thing"(without an understanding of what you're even doing) will provide the exact solution to whatever you might think the problem is.....:)

I always refer any electronic questions to "Lowes"...and in a pinch "Home Depot"......I always upgrade my computers there......:)

"shiites and giggles" is a strange way to imply that you might not approve of how people try to improvise in order to solve a problem that you only read about....

:lolol:lolol 'Burns, would you stop sugar coating everything and tell us what ya really think?:YeaBaby:

Chas, now that you've identified the problem areas, have you attempted any fix other than the static spray? Specifically I'm curious about the aluminum hex 'fix.' I don't see how this can make a darn bit of difference but it sure is a popular theory.

[ChasHeliCop]

Fireup has.... this is a great break-thru.....

http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=62101

I am still considering the idea of an aluminum tail drive gear.... we will see how that plays out, but Fireup definitely has the proof.