check out this video (brown out problem?) IT IS STATIC!

[KandB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATlgsCmYHmM

http://runryder.com/helicopter/t409185p1/
Here is a post by the person doing the test.

[Eyefly]

Yep, Did the same thing a few weeks back. STATIC!!!


http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=59035&page=4 POST 36

[Finless]

Yep... more proof static exists in the tail system.

Bob

[rcmarty]

I use one of these devices daily. It picks up on an ac current (inductance)

For example , a carpenters skillsaw doesn't work yet the extension cord does. Put the tick (tradename) on the saw cord. If it beeps the neutral is broken , if it doesn't the black (hot) is broken.

Is this implying that the static charge is of an AC (alernating current) ? Someone have a 600n and a beeper ?

My understanding of a static charge is it builds up to a 'flash over' point when it jumps to a better source of ground. (path of least resistance). Kinda like a dc buildup ??

Feel free to correct me if i'm off here.

Keep in mind the 'brushless' motors as we call them in the hobby are the same as a 3phase ac motor (rotating magnetic field with a conductive core). It's been noted and makes sense that the frame may be amplifying the signals via the (ungrounded - floating) motor mount. With 360 polarity changes to be had per second it's no wonder that's going off.

A few things to consider (to get an effective reading from them). Mine has a shirt clip that makes the thing come on, sometimes a poor connection so i rub it up and down my shirt/sleeve to test it's on.
We don't rely on them very much. When were checking to see if a 3phase 1000a service is off (check before sticking hands in) we don't use on of these, we use a meter we trust (with our life).
They will also pick up inductance from another wire closeby. For example on a 3 wire (black/red/white/ground) the red could show it's hot when it's not, but the black one is and is inducing a voltage (usually about 11-25ish) volts.

I use it to verify when i think a wire is hot. or to see if power is present. Pinpointing is left to a meter.

My though is that your picking up on the esc (inverter) and or the motor. I'm not sure how clean the esc runs in terms of varying the frequency/voltage to the motor. I assume it's a basic form as a true variable frequency drive yeilds full hp of the motor at any rpm. The rc grade is best above 80% throttle.


Hopefully that has been helpfull.

I wonder though, if there is a way to get a meter hooked up and get some readings. Maby a lead at each end of the boom ?

My observation so far is that the belt is more likely to rub the boom holder than on a 600 sized. Call it a pulley diameter vs the boom diameter thing if that makes sense. 600n/e 's are dropping out of the sky like crazy. I have got a shock when i've touched my 600e after a flight though. A little silicone oil (truck shock oil) on the belt gets rid if that. But nothing so bad it locksout/brownouts on me.

Martin :)

[ChasHeliCop]

Ok, I just did a video of the ESD with the AC Voltage tester. Two things I would like to note. First, I did use silicone on the belt and the main and reduction gears. Second, I have always wondered if the static may have been generated by the combination of the nylon reduction gear and the tail drive gear. you will see as soon as the video uploads, there is a higher signal right at the main gear. I have NOT done the grounding mod to the ESC, Stay tuned........

[Socal500]

We just tested with a Fluke 196C. No images but here are the results. This is with the main blades off and spooling up at zero pitch.

Measurements on the CF Frame
Frame not grounded. 3.5 volts on the frame
Frame grounded at motor mount to ESC negative flatline on the frame.

Measurement on the tail boom
Frame not grounded. 2.3 volts generated at the boom
Frame grounded 2.3 volts generated at the boom
Frame / boom / tailshaft / front pulley all grounded was flatline

We did not spray the belt. I cannot say this was static, only that we got the 2.3 volts reading on the tail boom regardless of grounding frame or not. I also turned the rotor head by hand while measuring and without the blades on I could not get it spinning very fast but was able to reach 1 volt. Under conditions better for static build up I guess the readings on the tail could be higher.

[PTFlyer]

maybe the material that the belt is made of has something to do with it also.....

is there another make/type of belt that can be used on the 500?

[rdlohr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATlgsCmYHmM

http://runryder.com/helicopter/t409185p1/
Here is a post by the person doing the test.

This was a great vid. Can you repeat this with a TREX 450, and with the 500 after the belt has been lubed. I'd love to see that.

Also, can you pinpoint the "hot spots" to watch out for when locating electronics.

Rick

[ChasHeliCop]

Ok, here's the video I just finished uploading......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ4UFRLdclw

IJ4UFRLdclw

[terrybeb]

It's just a cool looking and flying Van de Graaff generator with the carbon fiber conducting the electricity.

[rdlohr]

Ok, here's the video I just finished uploading......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ4UFRLdclw

IJ4UFRLdclw


Very interesting vid. Is the belt lubed? Wonder what lubing the nylon gears would do?

Wonder if a 450 is similar.

Rick

[ChasHeliCop]

I did lube the belt and both gears with silicone....... the 450 video is coming, uploading now. Interesting results. Also I did NOT do the ESC ground mod !

[rdlohr]

I did lube the belt and both gears with silicone....... the 450 video is coming, uploading now. Interesting results. Also I did NOT do the ESC ground mod !

WOW, so even lubed the ESD is present. I wonder what it would look like with the grounding wires on people are using.

[rdlohr]

It would be nice to have a meter that shows strength of the ESD for comparison purposes. The blinky blinky works pretty well though! Thanks for posting these!

Rick

[Justin911]

I am afraid to fly my 500 now! My problem is that align MUST have had the same problems while testing and didn't say anything or do anything to fix the problem!!! It just doesn't make sense that all of a sudden people are having static problems. It just kind of came out of the blue....

[ChasHeliCop]

Just hang tight, until you see the 450 video..... I think it will surprise you. I really do not feel the ground mod does anything except give the static discharge an easy route to follow. Path of least resistance, it doesn't solve the problem, but I have an idea that might.

[rdlohr]

I did lube the belt and both gears with silicone....... the 450 video is coming, uploading now. Interesting results. Also I did NOT do the ESC ground mod !
Can you take the belt off the front pulley and try it. Maybe the nylon gears are just conducting the ESD but not generating it.

[rdlohr]

Just hang tight, until you see the 450 video..... I think it will surprise you. I really do not feel the ground mod does anything except give the static discharge an easy route to follow. Path of least resistance, it doesn't solve the problem, but I have an idea that might.OK, I'm dying for the answer...drum roll ...

[ChasHeliCop]

Still uploading, but i think the anticipation is worth it. I have a slow upload speed, but i am not on dialup. i think the vid is 60mb..... the 500 was 120+ I know it's killing you, but just hang tight !

[rdlohr]

Still uploading, but i think the anticipation is worth it. I have a slow upload speed, but i am not on dialup. i think the vid is 60mb..... the 500 was 120+ I know it's killing you, but just hang tight !
LOL...hanging

[Cash Killer]

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae568.cfm
The way an aircraft tries to dissipate these step leaders is through the use of something called a "static wick". A static wick is a piece of metal connected electrically to the frame of the aircraft, with one or two spikes or needles on the end. It is housed in a fiberglass rod to insulate it from the airplane. Because the spikes concentrate the electric charge around them, and they are connected to the airframe, they allow the airplane to dissipate any static electricity it may build up out into the air. Also - if lightning DOES strike the plane, the chances are that the electricity will go through the dissipator and not through the airplane. You can see pictures of these dissipators on the 737 webpage below.


I found this it, might help.

[ChasHeliCop]

Ok, here it is..... the 450 (correction I said 600 in the video, it was the 500)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF-Tm9RSlPk

VF-Tm9RSlPk

[Justin911]

awesome vids.. so if its the main gear. how do we solve that problem?

[ChasHeliCop]

Can you take the belt off the front pulley and try it. Maybe the nylon gears are just conducting the ESD but not generating it.

Rick, if you noticed in the first video, i started out on the tail boom. There was nothing there, but as soon as i got to the gears, it lit up.....

Now, just a theory at this point, but it appears the 450 isolates the ESD looking at the gears and configuration, the 450 uses gears made of the same material in the reduction gear and the drive gear. It appears the 500 has gears made from two different materials.

Also, the configuration of the tail drive systems are slightly different. One the 450 the drive pulley sits on the top of the shaft, separated from the drive gear by a bearing in a bearing block. On the 500 the drive gear and drive pulley are in closer proximity next to each other.

Possibly changing the material of the tail drive gear would help.... I don't know.

[chichiuno]

the 450 uses gears made of the same material in the reduction gear and the drive gear. It appears the 500 has gears made from two different materials.



Good piont. The two different materials is a key ingredient in the Vander thingy.
Did you have lockout problems? If you shut the lights do you see any ESD?