e325: Increase roll rates/Tail authority

[liaan]

hi all
i've got stock MT and now need to get two things improved:

roll rate(swash at max, flybar control box/arms hitting blade grips)

and tail authority. Currentley running gy240 with atv of 125. when turning from tail into wind to tail down wind, it nice and fast, but going from downwind, into wind it almost sticks at the 90degrees, and you can hear the tail rotor really working hard to get the tail around..

any suggestions welcome!

thanks
L:

[Aox]

Both of those things can be increased by upping the headspeed. Any idea what headspeed you're currently running? Sounds like it's time to kick it up a notch or two.

-Aox

[liaan]

100/90/100 throttle curve.....
can't really go more ;-) maybe time for bigger power plant and some CF blades....
L:

[crabfu]

make sure that the tail parts are smooth, disconnect the linkage rod, and move it by hand.... tail pitch slider and parts should all be silky smooth. Also the closer servo horn hole will have more torque. And.... I'd recommend K&B tail blades, they are cheap, and nice and stiff :) I had similar issues before with mine, making right turns was very challenging at times. I ended up with cnc tail and K&B tail blades, and align carbon linkage rod. It was holding perfectly and no issues with the tail at all in fff, backwards upright, flips, rolls, loops etc.... well until I crashed this last weekend due to stupid thumbs :(

To improve cyclic rate.... try gorilla paddles. I am using those with 1/3 weight, and 7 degrees cyclic, +-11 collective. It's faster than what I know to do with, in fact I think I might go back up to 1/2 weights. With no weights, it was way too fast, and way too twitchy for my taste/skill. I've never flow with stock blades, but align cf blades or woodies work great. and I am running stock motor/esc with your same throttle curve.

Hope that helps.

-Crabfu

[liaan]

aaa, so seems like there might be cheap solution.
already on the hole closest to servo, otherwise it binds (hs81)
everything very smooth on tail, recheck all, already upgrade to stiffer pushrod(stole my honey bee king 2 carbon rod).

so will try the k&b tail blades. I've got some other woodies at home, some no name brand, much lighter, but need to add blade spacers, so not tested yet.

will see how it feels then... i'm sure that will put the abiltiy of heli above my thumbs for a while... i'm practicing static rolls, and if its rolling slowly its really bad if you get collective timing wrong, no escape ;-)

L:

[fretbuzz85]

For Roll rate, im not sure if this has been mentioned, but you can try the outer holes for the lower mixing arms.
And as for lighter paddles, i use the align 3k paddles (not sure of the exact weight difference, but definitely lighter than the MT stock ones.)
Plus Crabfu's 7 deg of cyclic range


As for tail authority, the following setup gives me crazy piro rates and holding ability, even in Fast upright backward flight.

- Gy401 gyro and Futaba 9257 servo
- Micro heli metal servo mounts. (Eliminates the need for rubber grommets on the servo)
- Metal tail blade grips
- Beam carbon tail push rod (MT metal one seems to flex easily)
- Funky carbon fiber tail blades
- 3200 Headspeed

To add on, with just the Gy401 and 9257 servo, without all the other upgrades, my MT used to suffer blowouts in fast upright backward flight and when i punch my throttle hard during flips

[liaan]

Thanks Fretz.
Already on outer holes.. already running 7.5 degrees cyclic range, cannot get more, flybar hitting blade grips already.

will try the above and give you some feedback.. might be only after payday though ;-(

cherio
L:

[ghtracey]

You know anyone with a tach? Curious as to what your headspeed might be.

[liaan]

nope, i'm don't even know anyone else flying RC ;-) always fly on my own...
maybe the lhs might lend me one.. spend enough money there lately ;-)

[Ratjr15]

100/90/100 throttle curve.....
can't really go more ;-) maybe time for bigger power plant and some CF blades....
L:
Depending on your motor, you may be able to get more... Change the pinion....

[liaan]

stock motor....on last legs already...

but with our exchange rate going through the roof, i'll have to wait for upgrades ;-(

[ghtracey]

Depending on your motor, you may be able to get more... Change the pinion....

Yep there's probably a lot that can be done. All the specs on the machine would help, motor, ESC, battery, gearing, the works. I can't see how 7-1/2* of collective pitch could give it a slow roll rate.

Another option for paddles, TT has released the neon green 3D paddles for the e325 now too (PV0837).

[liaan]

[quote=ghtracey;559191]. I can't see how 7-1/2* of collective pitch could give it a slow roll rate. quote]

presume depends on the deffinitoin of slow ;-) can do full roll in about 1 1/2 seconds...

now that i'm getting my collective timing better, roll rate also much better..... before getting time correct it was about 2 1/2 seconds of shear terror ;-)

also update on tail... the wind dropped below 15mph the first time in about 40 flights, and man, thing pyro's fast!!... so nothing wrong with gyro/linkages etc..... sure stiffer/more efficienct tail blades will help in the wind to get more power in cross wind situation.

thanks for all the help so far... almost payday!!!:lol:

[liaan]

Well, readyheli just earned some more Za Rands...
new align woodies, and K&B tail blades and some kong 2200 to test on the way

will mount when i get it.. normally about week and half.. and give you guys update

cherio
L:

[haf4046]

I emailed one of the TT factory pilots about increasing the roll rate. He is using the new green paddles and said he had to back off cyclic with them. I have a pair on order too :D

No problem with tail holding, but I am using a solid CF pushrod made from a boom support.

I am going to try som CF main baldes I have, I think that has a lot to do with it.

FWIW I have had that 2.5 sec of terror dropping from the sky trying a stationary roll. I find it comes off much better if you pump in a + CP just as you start. Gives it a little pop up first.

[liaan]

my newest problem is the esc starting to pulse(low battery warning) in the middle of roll... man, do you know how slow roll is with pulsing headspeed ;-), you land and you only put 800 mah back into FP2170.(about 70 cycles).. driving me insane:arggg:...
normal hover / ff i still get my full 1680 mah out of it (conservitive 80% rule;)))

going to get the connectors etc replaces, and drop the voltage level on the esc to lower.
already timing my flights, so should not be a biggy.
and the new kongs are on the way as well, hope all that fix that issue.:glasses2:

[john_3330]

I guess the FP packs are losing their voltage holding capabilities.. I think its more of a voltage sag problem.. Using a new pack of battery should solve the problem.. I occasionally have my motor cut out on me while rolling and after the roll, the motor came back on.. There is a distinct sound telling me my motor is shut off.. Haha.. Guess i need to get better batteries..

[liaan]

unless you fly dx7 and getting the now infamous signal blocking, and going into failsafe ;-)

another week before my new packs here.. at the moment i just fly, and if low voltage cuts in, i land, cut throttle, and fly imedeatley agian.. stupid...

[haf4046]

This won't increase tail authority, but putting on a pair of the new green SE paddles will definitly increase the roll rate. They are 2gr lighter than the stock and response is QUICK!

[john_3330]

I've tried to mod the stock TT paddles by drilling holes and the results are 5.9g per paddle.. The stock paddles weigh about 7.2 grams.. The way the cyclic reacts are very impressive!

[JiriK]

I bought those green paddles too.. But I haven´t installed them yet.
Weight comparison
Stock MiniTitan paddle: 7.0g (with a bit of flybar rod snapped inside paddle)
Align HS1191 paddle: 6.2g
MiniTitan SE green paddle: 4.3g

I´m currently flying with those Align paddles and flybar, mainly because lhs that sells align is within walking distance..

I have set cyclic throw to 8 degrees...
Some (not so good quality) video on how it turns: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7qhvUPlQls
btw, flying weight is a bit over 1kg..

[liaan]

hi All

just quick update.. got my new toys yesterday, wind blowing.. and tonight could only do hover under the street lamp.:thumbdown:.... BUT

WOW, what i difference!! the collective got amazing "pop" now, and tail not even moving on full collective. normally moved slight bit, then recovered.:thumbup:

wind was only about 15km/h, so cannot confirm 100% yet if tail authority fixed now, but just the fact that the tail not even budging on full collective and pyro speed very consistent and fast we seem to be on correct track...:)

will have some more flights in the morning and give provide update... might get some rolls/loops in just to check how cyclic responce ..

L:

[crabfu]

sweet! gota love them K&B blades :) Glad to hear that you feel an improvement, hopefully the winds will die down soon and get some real tests in!

-Crabfu

[liaan]

winds die down... bwwwahaaahaa.. that was no wind ...

actually today was dead calm.. just got the dreaded tracking issue now....

and roll rate lower, but that probably cause i dropped my expo mixing for just in case...

battery's charging now.. hope will get another flight or 2 in this evening.

L:

[kinetik]

Hi Liaan

Which area of Cape Town are you in?

Did you know about Monday nights at Bellville Velodrome?