Honey Bee FP....seems really unstable in the air.

[imq707s]

I'm new to RC helis. I have the FMS and Clearview sim software and I've been flying the Honey Bee FP model around in the sim for about a week now. I'm getting very good at maintaining a steady hover, and I'm starting to do some nose out maneuvers.

In the sim I can do pretty good....but every time I try to fly the real thing, it seems extremely unstable and unpredictable. I can keep it hovering for a few seconds, but if it gets a little tilted and unleveled, it's just about impossible to recover it. It just seems like the slighest input on the sticks has a HUGE affect on the heli.

Is that normal for these heli's? I've gone through the normal setup procedures at far as balancing everything.....but it still just seems really unstable. I did notice that it seems to be more stable withOUT the practice gear hooked to the skids.

Is it just me, or are the Honey Bee FP helis really unstable? I'm sure 90% of the problem is that I just need more practice :D

[warpspeed]

Yep, just need more practice. The little ones ARE very twitchy and sensitive to overcontrol.
Don't worry-keep at it. You'll get the hang of it eventually.

[damyxz]

Put flybar weights on and move the swash links inward 1-2 holes. These procedures will make the FP really stable.

[JustPlaneChris]

Actually, I have just the opposite advice, based on my experience with the FP: Remove the flybar weights (which are installed by default on the FP) Why? Because the problem is not that it's too sensitive, the problem is that the controls are so numb you keep feeding input trying to get it to react, then it finally does and then you're chasing it trying to get it to stop!

If you live fairly close to sea level, the best trick to increase stability is to clip the blade tips about 10mm to slightly increase the headspeed. If you live at higher altitudes, this might not be a good idea, as they are marginally powered.

Adding more flybar weight and moving the servo connectors inward will just make the situation worse, IMO.

[martiol]

Actually, I have just the opposite advice, based on my experience with the FP: Remove the flybar weights (which are installed by default on the FP) Why? Because the problem is not that it's too sensitive, the problem is that the controls are so numb you keep feeding input trying to get it to react, then it finally does and then you're chasing it trying to get it to stop!

If you live fairly close to sea level, the best trick to increase stability is to clip the blade tips about 10mm to slightly increase the headspeed. If you live at higher altitudes, this might not be a good idea, as they are marginally powered.

Adding more flybar weight and moving the servo connectors inward will just make the situation worse, IMO.

I agree, the weights delay your input. You just end up chasing it. (Pilot induced oscillation)

[imq707s]

Thanks for the help guys. I pull the flybar weights off, and it's much more responsive to my inputs. I can keep it hovering for about 5min now before I have to put it down. Much better than before.

Thanks again :thumbup:

[foo foo fighter]

wow i did the same to my hughes 300 and it does way better thanks for this thread.:thumbup:

[Wrongway]

What are you guys doing about balance? I have experienced the same problems with my HBFP and it appears to be very tail heavey with the batteries in the rack provided. When lifting off the main skids will lift and the tail will remain in ground contact until I give more power. Any ideas??

[JustPlaneChris]

You need to modify it so the battery is under the 4-in-1. There is no way to balance it with a lipo battery otherwise. Even the stock NiMH battery doesn't work well in the stock location. Not sure what they were thinking when they designed that! :roll:

[damyxz]

Some of the guys here used the super skidz upgrade and they are able to securely mount the battery more forward.

[Stump3r]

I fly the Walkera #4 which is basically a clone of your heli, get the superskids! The added weight increases stability and you can move your battery as far forward as you need to get the COG correct. Best upgrade ever for any FP machine.

[Jimbo 44ch]

I am basically lazy. What I did to my stock HBFP is put about a 1/4 oz of lead all the way forward in the nose. Balances just fine with a 2 cell TP 1300 and it flies great and forever, 15 plus minutes with this setup. Jim

[ashewb]

the eflight wiki has a section on hbfp trim and tune so to speak

[jimw1956]

If you use the stock NIMH you will have to put 1/2 oz. of weight in the front, or at least that was my experience. I use a 2S lipo mounted under the 4/1 and balances it fine.

[KeithT]

I have had similar problems as a newbie - found that if I increased the blade pitch of the paddles, it became very stable and has let me move forward much more quickly.
I'm gonna try the weight removal tip though, sounds cool.

Keith

[bobbyshafter]

I place a piece of foam under the 4in1 then use a rubber band to mount the lipo under the 4in1a little forward.Will try removeing the flybar weights.

[warpspeed]

While you're pulling the weights, grab a pair of needlenose pliers with small tips, place them in the holes in the endbell and rotate the plate clockwise approx. 1/2 inch. (10mm for you metric guys) This advances the timing enough to overcome the headspeed issue Chris mentioned above.

[KeithT]

While you're pulling the weights, grab a pair of needlenose pliers with small tips, place them in the holes in the endbell and rotate the plate clockwise approx. 1/2 inch. (10mm for you metric guys) This advances the timing enough to overcome the headspeed issue Chris mentioned above.

OK - you got me there - what is an 'endbell' and where is it?:noteworthy

This is a HBFP standard version (well - apart from the upgraded skids and battery/4in1 compartment - oh and the battery - ahh yes also the tail feathers:roll:)

While I'm on here, I am now using the lipo 11.1v because of the extra weight of the upgraded undercarriage and it has developed a tail wag I can't cure by adjusting the gain at all - I've tried most of the range of adjustment. Anyone any ideas??

Thanks for any help
Keith

[warpspeed]

Sorry Keith.:o Old habit from my r/c car racing days. There's no "endbell" on these little 380 motors. I was referring to the end of the motor where the leads and capacitors are soldered.

As for the wag.......well, ya got me. :dontknow Not sure why extra voltage would have anything to do with it-have you tried swapping back to a 2s pack to see if there's any difference?

Is the 4-in-1 rated for 11.1 volts?

Ok, shot in the dark here. Try setting the gain a little lower and increase the proportional pot. (Basically a rheostat that controls how much power gets to the tail) If it's a high mileage bird, assuming the bearings and pinion/gear are in good shape, it could just be a worn motor.

[dmulligan]

The wag could be that the tail cannot compensate for the extra torque that 3s gives you. Going with a direct drive tail could help with that. However tail motors are notorious for burning out with 3s.

Because a brushed ESC uses PWM to adjust power to a motor the motor will still be delivered11.1v available from the 3s pack. PWM works by switching the power on and off quickly. More on time equals more motor speed. There is a mod involving a zener diode and a resistor that will clip the voltage to an acceptable level (7v?). I may have read about this on rcg but Google should provide a good answer. I imagine that part of the mod will involve turning up the proportional adjustment some as the total power delivered to the motor will be cut by limiting the voltage. (P=IV)

David

[KeithT]

Ok thanks for the tips guys - I've been working on fine adjustments of gain/trim and it seems to be getting better. The dealers here in the Uk seemed to be comfortable with running a stock motor set up with the 11.1v lipos. I had weight issues with the 7.4 after I upgraded to the stronger skids (I figured it was cheaper in the long run than constantly smashing the stock skids) but the 3s has given me loadsa lift :thumbup:

It won't be cheaper if I keep burning motors though I'll face that if I have to and perhaps replace the originals with something stronger:thinking

In the meantime, I'm now training on one of the micro helis - the buzz fly. Boy is that thing whippy - I'm getting on much faster and then when I go back to the HB - seems so much slower I've made huge progress in just a few days. Still can only hover, but working on bringing the nose round 30 degrees each way.

Having loadsa fun

Keith

[Beachcomber]

Ok, so what we have here is a perfect example of the problem us beginners have trying to "break" into this hobby.
-Warpspeed says you just need more practice. Which means the heli if fine, it's just you stupid.
-Damyxz says more flybar weights. I've tried that and failed.
-JustPlane says just the opposite, less flybar weights. So, which is it?

This is not rocket science fellows. There must be an answer to the guy's question.

Actually I think it's a plot by those who can fly, to prevent anyone who can't from learning.

In spite of what most of you say, CRASHING SHOULD NOT BE NORMAL, if we could get some reliable advice!!

The Manufacturers are no help at all. Some of the Dealers try to help but are overwhelmed with the number of requests for help. My area has no local Hobby Store and I can't find anyone (club or otherwise) to help.

[warpspeed]

Hold on buddy. I NEVER called anyone stupid. The fact of the matter is flying these things requires an inordinate amount of practice, period the end. Crashing is inevitable, part of the process, and happens to the best pilots out there. "The guy" got an answer, the thread was left for dead.

Next time you decide to put words in someone's mouth.........THINK!:whip

[247rememberme]

don`t worry about it ,perfectly normal.when you`re first starting out all movements on the sticks are over exaggerated;fact!the hbfp is a great starter heli

[Jetskeeter]

another thing to check is the blade balance. mine was acting the same way and the blades were not equal weight. one was a lot heavier than the other and I had to put a lot of tape on the lighter blade. I just balanced them using the 2 drinking glass method. it was a lot more stable once the blades were better balanced.