Beginner Setup for 500 3D

[wiltonh3]

I am purchasing the 500 3D although I plan to use it for scale, sport flying. Main concern is flight time. I don't plan any extreme needs, just bought the 3D version for the upgraded parts.
As a beginer that will probably never do serious 3D, I would really appreciate advice on a good setup. Want quality, but don't need bling. Am guessing a 5S pack would provide the best fly time.
Could use advice on motor, esc, battery combo in addition to good reasonable wood beginer blades. Any other tips or setup advice also welcome.
Thanks for the help

[BruceW]

The Logo 500 3D is definitely the way to go since the parts are more standard than the DX (and I'm betting the DX will be phased out later on). If you want flight time, stick with 6S and 5000+mAh. 5S isn't going to get you too far and no growing room since you'll need to change your motor and pinion later on.

For non-bling setup, try S9452 ($80 each) servos, GY401/S9254 ($220). These are decent servos and gyro for a while. You should stay away from the full size servos that come with most radios since you'll probably strip the gears in the first crash.

ESC - you could try a CC Phoenix 80 ($140) or Align 75A ($80).

Motor - a lot of us are using the Hacker A40-10L-8 (optimized for 6S) which is good for the price ($120) and seems to have plenty of power and is efficient enough.

For batteries, your going to be limited by what you can fit in the frames. Kong Power and Air Thunder won't fit so you'll most likely need to look at FlightPower or ThunderPower. Also FP 4900 will not fit. The FP EVOlite 6S 5350 will probably give the best flight time for the weight than any other battery. At ~2100 head speed you could probably get 8 minutes of flying on 515mm blades with simple hovering and FF.

Just my $.02.

Bruce

[jamesotron99]

You don't need 2100 rpm on the head. It's the same head as the Logo 10, and I used to do great sport flying with only 1900 rpm on mine. It will perform really great anywhere between 1800 to 2000rpm, but Bruce is right, above 2100rpm it really comes alive.

[OICU812]

ANd things get super fast on the cyclic once you go over 2250 :D

[AusAnt]

I'm a beginner, and I have my HS at 2040, which is really nice and stable. A couple of people told me that a lower headspeed would not be so smooth as around 2000, although I have no experience of this as this is my first heli and only setup so far.

I set the timer for 8:30 on my TX. When I was just hovering only, I would put back about 3700 to 3900 Mah into the packs, but now that I am getting into gentle forward flight, my flight times are going up incredibly. I am still landing at 8:30 and am now putting 2700 - 3200Mah back in. I can't concentrate for any longer! - in fact I land briefly at around 4:00 mins and shut down for 30 seconds or so (and stop the timer) just to give the brain a rest. My setup is listed below.

It's a great heli. :smokin:

Ant

[jamesotron99]

It can be a good idea to go for two 4 minute flights rather than one 8 minute flight.

[OICU812]

8 minutes? WOW MAN! I think I would pass out or get confused, I am so used to 4:30 it ain't funny, lol.

[wiltonh3]

I may be mistaken, but I somehow got the impression that for mild sport flying I might actually get more time with a 5S.:confused:

[AusAnt]

Shawn, lets remember that in 4:30 your heli goes through a lot more stress and strain than my heli will probably go through ever, so I can understand your concentration being the same :noteworthy

Anyway, it looks like I may have inadvertently stumbled on the right thing - 2 x 4 min flights. I crashed a couple of weeks ago landing at 9 mins, and I did feel mentally drained and think this contributed to my crash.

Anyhow, don't mean to hijack.....;)

Wilton, if I recall my physics class at school :confused:
Watts = power
Volts x Amps = Watts
Assuming that all setups weigh exactly the same (which they don't, but lets assume for this example), you will need the identical number of watts to hover, no matter whether you are using low voltage and high current, or high voltage and low current.

To put some imaginary numbers to it, say you need 1000 watts to hover. You could do this with 10 volts and 100 Amps, or 20 volts and 50 Amps and so on.

High current (and low voltage) generates lots of heat, and is less efficient than High Voltage / low current.

Therefore this incredibly long winded answer to your simple question :arggg: is a higher voltage system will draw less current, be more efficient, and will be gentler on your batteries. 5s will be fine but you will probably get better efficiency from 6s.

Ant

[wiltonh3]

I understand the basic ohms law and thats why I ask the question. It surely makes sense that the 6S would provide more flight time, but I did not know if perhaps the 5S might be more effecient as lower demands or not. Again, don't have any idea where this thought came from, I've been reading too much :dontknow

Thanks for the responses so far and always welcome others input on the overall setup and the batteries specifically.

A source for good wood blades for my initial crashes?

[BruceW]

The truth is you can run a 5S setup and get some sport flying out of the Logo 500 but it doesn't give you much growing room for later on. The cost difference isn't that different from a 6S except for batteries. But as mentioned; you'll get more flying time and efficiency on 6S. I think there are also more capacity choices with 6S in the stores.

If you decide to go with a 5S configuration you'll want at least a 1300KV motor (i.e. Hacker A40-8L-8) and a 14T or 15T would give you 1900-2200 head speed. That motor reportedly runs a little hotter than than the A40-10L-8 (1100KV) and the Hackers in general like to run with a faster motor speed so its better to gear it lower and run a higher KV or larger cell battery.

Either way, I think you'll be happy with a 5S but once you move into forward flight and want to show off the power you'll need to upgrade more stuff. Starting with a 6S configuration gives you more growing room without needing to swap components except for maybe blades, pinion, and more batteries.

[wiltonh3]

Bruce,
Thanks for your patience and the advice. That makes sense. Do you have any options for decent yet inexpensive blades for my certain learning crash period?

[BruceW]

Here are some blades for the Gaui Hurricane 550 in 500 and 550 size that might work. You probably won't want to spin them too fast though - maybe 1700-2000 but I don't know the specs on them.

Good deal at $16 but not sure about the quality and strength.

500
http://www.readyheli.com/204302_Main_Rotor_Blades_Pack_Wooden_500L_Gaui_H_p/204302.htm

550
http://www.readyheli.com/204302_Main_Rotor_Blades_Pack_Wooden_500L_Gaui_H_p/204302.htm

[jamesotron99]

Century has cheap woodies too.

[BruceW]

Looks like Century has a good selection.

http://www.heli-world.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=128

[wiltonh3]

Bruce, looking throught the downloaded manual, it only shows pinions from 17t to 23t. I must assume that 15t are available from some other source or has Mikado started supplying them since the manual was printed?

Thanks again

[BruceW]

I just found the Hacker A40-12S 8pole that has specs for a Logo500DX on 5S that could be good for what you want. It has a KV rating of 1350 but only puts out 900W but that will probably be easier on your batteries if you go 5S.

Its listed at Espritmodel.com for $110. You should call them and see if they recommend it if your going with 5S.
http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=7087

[BruceW]

Bruce, looking throught the downloaded manual, it only shows pinions from 17t to 23t. I must assume that 15t are available from some other source or has Mikado started supplying them since the manual was printed?

Thanks again

I think that is 0.5 mod. If you use that style, then a 18T, 19T, or 20T might be the ones to look at.

[wiltonh3]

Forgive the ignorance, what is 5mod mean?

[BruceW]

In the Logo 500 3D kits you get two different style main gears. One has 153 teeth (mod 0.7) and the other as 212 (mod 0.5). The mod number is a relative spacing value between teeth.

When ordering pinions, you will see the different types listed. In general, I think most have gone with the mod 0.7 just because the teeth have a deeper tread which supposedly prevents gear stripping but on a 5S or less powerful system the mod 0.5 might be more efficient and quieter.

[wiltonh3]

Looked up the specs on the Hacker A40-12S. It looks like it is a perfect match for the 500. They suggest with the 500DX 8+ minutes of flight time with a 19t pinion, 520 blades and a 5S 5000mah. First of all does that seem reasonable and second, if I spring for a 6000mah I could reach 9:30 maybe?


This site is so helpfull. Thanks again to all for their input. It is clear this site will be my most important tool in my learning process.

[wiltonh3]

Ok Bruce. I am ready to stand at the chaulkboard and risk looking beginer foolish. If I understand correctly, if they say 19T (mod 5) can I assume the following?

212/19 = 11.158
153/11.158 = 13.71
If I use the mod 7 main gear, to match the suggested 19T pinion in mod 5 I should use a 14T in mod 7?

:noteworthy Grasshopper is ready to learn!

[AusAnt]

Wilton,

Bruce is being modest here ;) He wrote an awesome headspeed calculator program which you can download and save yourself having to do all of that gear ratio maths! It has all the popular motor choices and logo mod .5 and ,7 gears to choose from.

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=52607&highlight=head+speed+calculator

My only thought is if flight duration is important, and if you are prepared to go up to 5s 6000, why not go 6s 5000, because there is plentiful supply of 6s 5000 packs available which fit into the frames perfectly - proven setup and plenty of choice of brand/ vendor?

Ant

[wiltonh3]

Fair enough. I am driving blind here and as you can see at this point flowing with the breeze. As it seems the 5s will run as much as the 6s, it probably does make sense. I am surely getting the cart before the horse. I am just ordering the kit now. I expect several months of continued practice with my CX and the simulator, and the guidance of a friend. I am hooked and eager to learn.

Thanks to all the input.

[BruceW]

You made it sound like you were already set on 5S so that's why I tried to help you move forward in the direction. If your really still undecided between 5S and 6S, make it easy on yourself and choose 6S. The packs are more available and you have more growing room as mentioned before. Also, most people in this forum with a L500 have gone with 6S so there will be better opinions to choose from when deciding on motors, pinion, blades, ESC, etc. If you go with 5S, there will be more guessing going on and you'll find most stuff out on your own.

As AusAnt said, I have a Windows based head speed calculator that will help you choose pinions (either 0.5 or 0.7 mod) to get the speed you want.

Since your looking for opinions and your still deciding, I'll just go out on a limb here and state what I think you should get. Go 6S, get a Hacker A40-10L-8pole motor and a 14T to keep the head speed down to around 1900-2100 while learning. When you want the power, move up to 15T and get bigger CF blades.

My $0.02.