Maiden flight!

[skydude]

Yes. My Hurri lifted off today at around 12:23 pm EST. Set it right back down and reversed the tail servo. Threw in a little ail. & elev. expo just to play it safe. Finished out the packs puttering around the yard. A little hover here, a little hover there. Yee haw.

Handles like a dream. Perfecting all that set-up technique crashing so much on the 450's really paid off.

Flew the rex 450's afterward. They seemed so small after intimidating me for the last year.


Question: The Hurri packs read 10.33 and 10.26 volts afterward. Is this normal to have this much variance between the two packs? I want to baby these brand new 3300's.

Not sure what the time was to pack slowdown but it seemed short for the big packs. It was suggested that I run the head speed to around 1900 +/- to max flight time. What is the best way to achieve this. Drop the throttle or raise the pitch? Don't know yet what it is but will need to get the wife on the tach.

I have noticed that nobody seems to be cutting the canopy vents that are recommended on the instructions. The motor was too hot to hold onto for more than ten seconds comfortably but did not seem in danger of starting the bird on fire. Is this a typical temperature?

Thanks for any thoughts

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[mjdee14]

If your using one of the Gaui motors...890 or 1100 they get VERY hot and suck alot of mah from the pack. Good thing you have 3300's.

It appears one pack is giving up a little more than the other....I don't think any of my packs read the absolute same....one always recovers a little more than the other.

check the individual cells to see if they are closely balanced....you could have one bad cell not keeping up and that would drop total pack voltage....

They say to just hover halfway through a new pack a few times to break it in...I just started doing that with my new packs...figured it couldn't hurt.

If your headspeed is too high you will either have to go down a pinion size or two...or reduce the throttle curve somewhat....but you can't reduce the throttle curve too low or else you may not be running the motor in the best rpm range.

http://www.ezfly.se/hscalc.htm check out the head speed calc.

You most likely have a 14t or 15t pinion...and you could use a 13t to slow it down and lower the TC also... I usually get about 7 -8 minutes of hard non 3d flying and use about 2500 mah out of my 3300 packs... I am running the Z20 -980 motor with a 14t pinion and 515 cf blades.

[vicrc]

Go with the Z20 980kv and fly your 3300s for 10 minutes :)

[skydude]

I love the idea of getting 10 minutes. I fly as slow and smooth as I can. Basically I want control for every inch of the flight path. Got so tired of fly/crash that I made a pact with myself that I will never again. I don't care if it takes me 20 years to learn to do a loop, it is extremely satisfying to bring my birds home in one together group of parts.

Anyway, everyone was out of the motored kits when I bought. The salesman sold me the z30. What did I know? Have a 13t pinion. Haven't found a 12t.

I had thought of sending the motor back and getting the z20. Decided I will see how it goes. Once I actually tach the hs and do the tweaking I'll see where I am at. If I think I can get a few more minutes I may bite the bullet connector and stick in the z20. Save the 30 for.....

Mjdee, when you say drop the throttle, would you 'locally' drop it at a given pitch step (5 steps on my futaba), or do something like set the full throttle range lower, i.e. not push the stick all the way to the top when programming the esc? (I am not sure this makes sense)

I guess once I tach the hs I can work backwards and get the actual motor rpm. Try to keep it in it's coolest working range.

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[mjdee14]

I have noticed that nobody seems to be cutting the canopy vents that are recommended on the instructions. The motor was too hot to hold onto for more than ten seconds comfortably but did not seem in danger of starting the bird on fire. Is this a typical temperature?

Thanks for any thoughts

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Most people at least cut holes on the top of the canopy over the motor....

Now...since your using the Z30...I have not heard anyone states that motor got hot to the touch...usually the Z motors with the built in fan run cooool.

Give us your set up...esc, blades, pitch, t curve and anything else you can think of...it just doesn't sound right that a Z30 should get that hot, especially if your not doing hard 3D....

I'm running a Z20 with 14t pinion, 515 cf blades, on 95% curve and it's almost barely above ambient temp...and that's with loops, roll,s max pitch climbs, etc.

post the info and lets see if anyone see's anything out of place. a 13t pinion on a Z30 should be about right...what KV motor do you have?

When I say "drop" the thottle curve I mean set the curve at maybe 85% across the 5 idle up points, or maybe 80% in the middle point...or try 80% all across.

First try it just hovering in normal mode and see how it handles at a lower rpm...if it's ok...set it for idle 1 and fly.

I have my normal curve set at 0, 65% 85%,90%, 90%, that way if I'm flying in normal I won't have the motor shut down if I bring the stick down below 1/2 way. i have forgotten at times to hit the idle up switch before flying....

Loops.....I was afraid to do them with the hurri...and this weekend I finally got the guts to try it.....this heli loops and flips unbeleavable.....plenty of control to loop.....it gives the pilot lots of confidence....
Love this heli.....it is great...

[skydude]

Now...since your using the Z30...I have not heard anyone states that motor got hot to the touch...usually the Z motors with the built in fan run cooool.

Give us your set up...esc, blades, pitch, t curve and anything else you can think of...it just doesn't sound right that a Z30 should get that hot, especially if your not doing hard 3D....

I'm running a Z20 with 14t pinion, 515 cf blades, on 95% curve and it's almost barely above ambient temp...and that's with loops, roll,s max pitch climbs, etc.

post the info and lets see if anyone see's anything out of place. a 13t pinion on a Z30 should be about right...what KV motor do you have?


Thanks mjdee,

The motor is a tonic z30, 1110 kv. 13t pinion.
normal throttle - 0 40 70 85 100
pitch - 34% 50% 66% 83% 100%
futaba 6ex
stock gaui wood blades (500mm?)
esc - Hobby wings 60 amp opto (no bec)
bec - hobby wing 7.5A ubec
3 - s3151 running at 6v (did I do right with these servos?)
1 s9254 at 5 v regulated
gyro - gy401

I will cut some cooling vents in my freshy painted canopy. Has to help.

Any other thoughts will be greatly appreciated. Would be just my style to learn something new the hard way by burning up my new motor.

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[mjdee14]

SD...

I honestly do not see any reason for the Z30 runningas hot as you stated.

Maybe someone else will chime in.....

have you checked to make sure you don't have too much drag on the gears....

maybe the cooling holes will help also......

If you have another esc you could also try that to remove that posibility....

[ukgroucho]

errr..
normal throttle - 0 40 70 85 100
pitch - 34% 50% 66% 83% 100%

Now assuming that 50% pitch is 0 degrees I reckon you're hovering somewhere between 50 and 65% throttle, maybe less. NOT GOOD.

At that throttle setting, HS will be low so you've got the worst enemy for a brushless motor - low RPMs and a high load because lots of pitch will be required to hover at a low HS. This will suck amps = hot motor and short flights.

You want at least 75% - 80% throttle at hovering pitch (80 - 85% probably better).

[skydude]

Excellent. Thanks guys. I will try adjusting the headspeed up at hover. I was giving it my best shot to match the recommended curve from gaui but this may make sense.

Yes. 50% is 0 deg on the futaba 6ex..

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[ukgroucho]

The Gaui curve may assume 50% pitch (0 pitch) at mid stick which is a 'more normal' setup for a CP heli - you do all your upright hovering / flying above mid-stick.

With 50% pitch at point 3 (mid-stick) you'd be up at ~80% to 85% throttle in a hover.

[skydude]

Damn. I have to say it again. Excellent. It makes sense. Inefficiency means energy turning to heat.

This will be sweet. Maybe not screw something up learning how to do it.

Excellent. Hurray for the Freaks. This would be a lonely and very (very) frustrating hobby (sport, passion, obsession......addiction....) without the camaraderie of you guys.

Thanks again. I am stoked. This head speed has to help. The more I look at the numbers the more it looks off.

Glad to hear of your satisfaction of this bird mjdee. Everybodies comments about how much they enjoy and like their hurri's was what made me look into this bird.

I cannot say it enough. Thanks for the help guys.

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[skydude]

The Gaui curve may assume 50% pitch (0 pitch) at mid stick which is a 'more normal' setup for a CP heli - you do all your upright hovering / flying above mid-stick.

With 50% pitch at point 3 (mid-stick) you'd be up at ~80% to 85% throttle in a hover.

Yes, yes, yes. It all makes sense. I can't believe I almost killed my new motor. What an idiot.

I really cannot thank you enough. If you are ever in G'ville area let me know and I will certainly be buying the beer.

And mjdee also. At least we are on the same continent.

This is so great having a heli connection.

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[xfaega]

Let us know how things work out for you. Here is my settings for the Z20A (980kV) 14T Pinion and the Z30A (1100kV) 15T Pinion - TC Normal - 0/40.5/63.5/75/85.0/93.0/100 PC Normal - 37.5/42.5/46.0/50.0/62.5/75.0/100. So with mine at 50% Pitch I have my TC at 75%. It might be a little high but it works great for me. The BL Motors stays cool and the battery is also cool along with the ESC.

[mjdee14]

SD..

Sorry I didn't pick right up on the TC being low with the PC so high....I knew if you posted, someone would see the problem....I looked quick and missed it.

HF is by far the best forum I have found for the 550...the others are either 1 thread 5million posts long....or only about the 200.

The Freaks are the best !!

I like to get my TC up as fast as possible and the Gaui ESC has one of the "Softest" spoolups I have seen...

So I run N TC at 0, 50, 85, 90, 90.....it's almost like having it in idle1 where I'm mostly just controlling pitch around hover point....

Sometimes when you change pitch and throttle togehter it can get touchy..

it really is a matter of what feels right to you...it just takes a while before you know and understand how to adjust it.

The graphs on the Tx really help to see in pictures what is going on..I found it a big help over my previous Tx.

[skydude]

I just bumped up my 50% pitch (0 deg - futaba - and of course what my links are at) to mid stick where I have the throttle at 70%. From there it will go to 75% pitch for 85% throttle and 100 % for 100%. My pitch gauge does not fit on these huge blades (far out) so I will just see how it flies. Check temps and hopefully get the wife on the sky tach and see what headspeed I am actually getting.

Decided it is time to program in Idle up. I just programmed it into my two trex 450's. I am such a puss. I have only been flying for over a year.

Did my first loops on the sim today at the lhs!!!

On my way.

Damn, I almost forgot. Sorry to be such a problem but this one has me stumped. I noticed my swash is tilted back quite a bit. A quick look (about an hour, hour and a half) all three of the servo lugs/links pairs are very accurate - same length, perpendicular at 0 deg. pitch except the rear servo is tilted. A tooth on the spline is off worse the other way (puts the rear real high). I can level the swash with 52 on the elevator trim ( futaba 6ex). Is this a lot? Should I redrill the servo horn and adjust from the template setting to get this adjusted out. Maybe go to some adjustable links at the two front servo links.
A lot of babble but I wonder if anyone else has this. The fixed length links seemed like fun at first but adjustables would fix this in a second.

Thanks for all the help guys. Tomorrow is back to test flights. Been storming here for two days.

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[Wazzer]

Hey Sky dude

got any pics of your servo installation and link setup so we can see your tilted swash?

When setting up my servos to get the swash level I had to use quite allot of subtrim to get it spot on. I also could find the right spline location on my arms.

Are both your front servos set up the same? Is it just the rear servo arm that is low casuing the swash to tilt back?
Are your roll bell cranks set level with the frame at 0 pitch?

Send is some pics of the heli set at 0 pitch and we can maybe help you out some more.

I agree I love HF as well loads of very useful info on here and not to mention great people.
when they are not making fun of you!(no names mentioned mike and mjdee!!)

All good fun of course


Ben

[mjdee14]

I agree I love HF as well loads of very useful info on here and not to mention great people.
when they are not making fun of you!(no names mentioned mike and mjdee!!)

All good fun of course


Ben

Wazzer.....wondered where you and JB went.....haven't seen any posts for a couple of days....thought you might have gone on a "Holiday".....

Glad to see your still around......didn't get eaten by one of those 6 foot snakes !!

it hit 73deg F here...and got 10 flights in over the weekend...


Skydude....has something changed since you set up the heli? or has it been like this since day one? you can only get it so close mechanically...then you have to use subtrim if your radio has it....

[Wazzer]

Things are a bit crazy at work at the moment but bob and i managed an early morning flight before work this week.

And it was the best session yet for me and my Hurry!!

Just getting into forward flight figure eights and Banking turns(not quite there yet but almost)

I love this heli!

Ben

[mjdee14]

Things are a bit crazy at work at the moment but bob and i managed an early morning flight before work this week.

And it was the best session yet for me and my Hurry!!

Just getting into forward flight figure eights and Banking turns(not quite there yet but almost)

I love this heli!

Ben

Me Too! I finally got the guts to try a loop.....I was so scared due to the way my ECO 8 flew....it was very dificult with the slow headspeed of the ECo to do loops and rolls....but when I finally tried one...it was almost like flying an airplane....it has so much power it just pulls through the loop with no problem....if/when you get in a problem situation, you just give it the controls and reacts and pulls out immeadiately....

I was even doing imellman turns and flips.....I can see where 3D can get addicting if you getgood at it. This heli is awsome for the price and performance.

I'm try to replace some ECo parts and they are 2 to 3 times as expensive as the 550.

[skydude]

[QUOTE=Wazzer;577130
When setting up my servos to get the swash level I had to use quite allot of subtrim to get it spot on. I also could find the right spline location on my arms.

All good fun of course

Ben[/QUOTE]

The more I look at it and think about it, it would seem that a lot of trim could be necessary, short of redrilling the servo horn. A spline on the servo shaft must change it 20 deg. or so. (approx. haven't counted teeth). For my flying, right around mid stick, all the trim probably will not shortchange me any where. May redo the horn someday????

I have never uploaded photos. Not my strong suit. Not sure you guys want me to learn how. I would be tempted to just upload naked pictures (of me). (Kidding. I mean my girlfriends).

Yeah, the front servos are spot on, perpendicular/parallel/matched at 0 deg. pitch. This just has to be a servo/spline/horn thing. I am estimating the back tilts 6-7 deg down. Sounds like what you were getting??

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[ukgroucho]

Sounds like something is amiss on the setup of the elevator servo (rear servo) horn. You might want to revisit the Finless video on this topic and redo it...http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=31211

It should not take THAT much sub-trim to get the swash level....

[Mikej]

I agree I love HF as well loads of very useful info on here and not to mention great people.
when they are not making fun of you!(no names mentioned mike and mjdee!!)

:nanabobo:tongue:OK:hug:

[skydude]

but FREAK yes. That was it. 2nd flight today. After moving the pitch to zero at mid-stick. Like a champ.
Didn't time it but it was noticably longer run time. Checked the motor and it was just warm. Maybe a little above body temp as it was just noticable. Yes. Yes. Yes. I am on top of the world. Got there without burning something up. Did cut some holes in my freshly painted canopy also.

Wouldn't have happened without you guys. At least so painlessly. All Freaks (except that one guy) have a perpetual invite to beers on me in G'ville. And sushi. And maybe backrubs (Not from me. From the local backrub place).

I do not know if the elev. pitch changed mjdee. I hate to admit it but I do not remember checking it during setup. Concentrated on getting links all the same length and parallel etc. but did not do a final swash check. It was probably off.

I will check the video as you suggest mr grouch. Damn. Your advice was spot on re motor speed.

What a hoot. I can't get over flying that big bird today. Solid. Smooth. Stable. It was pretty gusty/variable wind. Heli just hangs in there. Yee Haw......

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[Mikej]

I do not know if the elev. pitch changed mjdee. I hate to admit it but I do not remember checking it during setup. Concentrated on getting links all the same length and parallel etc. but did not do a final swash check. It was probably off.
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SD - do you have other servo arms, or possibly a "star" or disk - the stars and crosses usually have the different arms at slightly different angles, so you may find that they fit better if turned through 90 degrees or similar.

Good luck,
Mike

[skydude]

The servo template with the kit, for the round horns, puts that off-axis jog into the horn holes that matches the cranks. Would it not matter too much to just use a standard horn with bias to get me trimmed but lacking the 'off-axis' jog? Don't want to cause any weird binding by not matching the crank off set.

Thanks

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