8SA123 Setup

[vicrc]

Here is my current 8s setup. I basically removed the front area of the frame forward of the servos and mounted my ESC to the side of the frame. I made an aluminum plate that would hold the top 4s pack and bottom 4s pack, the plate is mounted to the existing hole on the motor mount. This configuration makes it easy to CG the H550.

The blue packs 3300 6s lipo and the white shipping wrap pack are 8s A123. I can switch between the two packs without changing CG.

My 8s A123 swings my RCP2 CF blade at 2400 rpm

[faxxe]

Hello!

What is the weight of the 8S Pack?

regards
-heimo

[vicrc]

A123 8s1p = 610g
A123 7s1p = 574g
Lipo 6s1p (3300mah) = 542g

2400 rpm ob 8s A123 is pretty fast on Z20 and all stock gearing, I want to gear it to 2200 but don't know exact gears to use.

[concept1]

which z20 are you running? my guess is you are running too much RPM and getting into some ineffiecient rpm ranges. also you must be pretty nose heavy with all that upfront? what are you getting for flight times.
I am using the RCP h/18 1000kv motor, on 8s A123 I "thought" it rocked, but I was running way over the max 25000 rpm, I changed the gearing and now i get more performance out of the 7s A123 then i did originally on 6s lipo and 8s A123! I am using the Rotorworkz frame and balance is perfect, it flies so much smoother and flies like it is much lighter, since I got that weight off the nose. the A123 cells like to be higher geared, I read this over and over from other threads, i finally tried it and I now agree!

[worldofmaya]

Hi!
What do you mean with "higher geared"?
-klaus

[Timmey]

größeres Ritzel Klaus ;-)

[vicrc]

which z20 are you running? my guess is you are running too much RPM and getting into some ineffiecient rpm ranges. also you must be pretty nose heavy with all that upfront? what are you getting for flight times.
I am using the RCP h/18 1000kv motor, on 8s A123 I "thought" it rocked, but I was running way over the max 25000 rpm, I changed the gearing and now i get more performance out of the 7s A123 then i did originally on 6s lipo and 8s A123! I am using the Rotorworkz frame and balance is perfect, it flies so much smoother and flies like it is much lighter, since I got that weight off the nose. the A123 cells like to be higher geared, I read this over and over from other threads, i finally tried it and I now agree!

Its pretty much dead on CG, I have 2 cell lipo RX pack in the back of the frame. The ESC is now mounted to the side. The entire pack is closer to center which makes it easier to CG and I can still use 6s 3300 mah lipos. I can actually use a single 6s packs now instead of putting 2 (3s) packs together.

My Z20 980kv is running at 2400 rpm with RCP2 500 CF blades. I get about 5 minutes mild aerobatic 7 max just hovering. I want to gear it down to 2200rpm and get more flight time. Currently I am using the 19t will the 20t help?

The 7s A123 does not have the same power as my 6s 3300 lipos, I want better or match the power.

[worldofmaya]

größeres Ritzel Klaus ;-)
Okay, though there's a little bit more behind it :oops:
I'm using 5s right now, I don't think that 7s A123 would change head speed too much.
-klaus

[concept1]

I get 4.5 minutes of mild 3d from my 7s A123's < I have not yet tried the 8s with my new pinion, but Not sure it will help flight time much. I had hoped I could gain fight time by regearing and using the 8s but I will probalby not gain much more then 30 seconds, if you want to hover you can do much better but then it's just no fun. I was running a 100% curve with my 21t pinion and revco gears, 7s was less performance then my 6s lipo and 8s was more punch but it flew heavy! 6s lipo was definatly prefered. now with my rotorworks frame and 22t pinion, on 6s lipo I am running about a 80 or 85 % curve, my 7s lipo I am runnning a 90-95% and performance is equal to the 6s lipo, and it flies just as good, i don't notice the weight, since the rotorworkz frame is balanced so much better. also my RCP h/18 is barely warm after 2 back to back flights (it was 60 degrees here yesterday) I still plan on running 8s but I was just so plesently supprized on the 7s. the max rpm on the h/18 is 25000 and I had been runing closer to 27-28000 and it was geting fairly warm, so running it at lower RPM does help.

[vicrc]

I was thinking of picking up the Custom Heli's CF frame. It seems like it will shave a ton of weight. Reduced weight from less bell cranks, ball/links, smaller servos and maybe pickup a medusa 3.5 amp BEC (Currently have one on my Trex500) so no rx battery (-90g). Also go with a short tail kit to match the frame better. I believe we can shave off at least 250g to compensate for the 2 extra cells and have lighter heli, not to mention its swinging a 500 size blades.

BTW my Trex 500 on 7sA123 is a porker as compaired to my Hurry. Hurry feels much lighter still with 8s pack

[concept1]

I was seriously considering the custom heli's CF frame, I went with the Rotorworkz because I already had std size digital servo's and I really like how it allows for such versatility on packs and electrics layout, not to mention it also just looks cool, but it is only like 20 or 50g lighter then the sock frame. I can run about any pack and have enough space for perfect CG, but if you want lite then the Custom frame with smaller servo's is probalby the way to go, although I still think it would be nose heavy with A123 packs, or if you set it up for A123 it would be tail heavy if you run lipo similiar to the stock frame!

[vicrc]

This hobby is terrible in the pocket book!!!!! I just placed my order for the CH frame set and short tail kit. I think it will balance much better because the servos are closer to the center mass. I really want a single brick type battery pack instead of making multiple series packs. Also made a decision on just sticking with A123 in the Hurry and lipos to the Trex 500.

[concept1]

I agree, I don't like the 2 packs. thats one of the reasons I do like the A123's. I am using 7s packs in shotgun style, 2 cells side by side and 3 long with the 7th cell cross ways on the end,I can easily add the 8th cell as well, it fits very nicely in the frame and easy to handle. my old configuration was a triangle pack, the top row was 3 long bottom two rows 2 long, this pack fit nicely in the stock plastic frame but it was nose heavy, this pack fits good in the Rotorworkz frame also but the canopy is a little tight and the triangle pack isn't as secure as the flat pack! Have you tried to heat the pack before you fly it?? I started putting the pack by my woodburner for about 3 minutes before I fly, it warms them up nicely and they do perform better warm! especially when it's cold! Sunday it was 40 degrees, my pack was about 90 and what a combo, cool air and a nice pack. yesterday it was 60 degrees, I did not warm my pack and I did notice it didn't have as much punch to it, I also didn't get as much flight time from it.

[vicrc]

I didn't warm my pack, but will try that next time, however it was in the mid 80s today and what a great day for flying. The 8s with all stock gearing is absolutely fabulous! I am still breaking in the pack so only went for 5 minutes till I get about 20 flights will try 7 min. I am pretty happy with this setup. However the Trex 500 7s pack was a dog today... after about 3-4 minutes into flight it would bog on backward flips, the first two minutes is great but after that its no joy, so that confirms my 7s A123 on Trex is not for me.

So warming up the packs makes for more power? Will it hurt the cell? Have you tached it with warm and cold packs?

[concept1]

I don't believe I get any more RPM's but the cells sustain the power better when warm is what I have heard. and it seems to work?

[vicrc]

Today I weighed my H550 at its ready to fly stat and it is 2450grams. There were a few metal upgrades so its not at all stock.

Here is a list of what it consist of, all stock unless noted below.

8sA123 (640g)
Z20 980kv
RCP2 500 CF Blade
Gaui metal head and grips
Gaui metal flybar cage
Gaui metal swash guide
Gaui elevator lever (only the elevator was changed to cnc)
Gaui lightweight paddle set (white)
Gaui lightweight tail rotor blades
DS821 servo
F9254 Tail
Align 3A BEC
2 cell 1200 mah RX Battery

I should be receiving my Custom Heli carbon frame soon and we shall see how much weight I can save with it.

[HighNear90]

Which ESC are you guys using with an 8s A123 setup?

--Leo

[concept1]

I am running the stock 50 amp esc, but I have to fool the over voltage alarm/cut off. I need to plug in a 25v pack (6s lipo or 7s A123) first to activate the esc, then I am good to go with 8s A123 until I shut down my rx, then I need to do it again. the Gaui esc is set to 26v but the mosfets are rated for 30v my 8s A123 is 28.8

[vicrc]

I didn't want to invest in an ESC at the moment because the stock ESC is handling load of 8s with no problem. I do what Concept1 is doing.

[HighNear90]

Hmmmm.........not sure I want to do that with my $100 ESC........I guess I need to buy a new one.

[vicrc]

Eventually will order the CC 85HV but only when I smoke the stock ESC. Have about 10 flights on 8s with no problems so far.

[vicrc]

Well I finished my CHP carbon frame upgrade. I also change the landing gears to a Trex 600 and installed my shorter tail conversion kit. The balance is pretty good and I didn't have to mount the tail servo on the boom, although have a tail Trex 600 carbon mount for the tail and that is a just a tad bit bigger than the boom diameter on the H550. Is there an advantage of having the tail servo on the boom besides helping with CG?

So the RTF weight is now 2353g with 8s A123. For comparison my Trex 500 was 2110g with 7s A123s. So the result is just 100 oz saving from my original setup, but most importantly I can easily CG the heli and use different brick style batteries. I rebuilt my A123 packs and its so much easier to mount and I don't have to deal with series power plugs on the A123s.

I did some test hovering and the cyclic response from the S9650s are nice and very quick compared to the DS821 servos. I am such a noob I will need to get myself up to speed quickly.

[gpach]

Nice battery setup Vic.

I am looking at getting the 550 and am heading towards the A123 setup. I see you have what looks like two balancing leads coming off the battery? Does anyone know if you can plug an 8S battery into two cellpro 4S chargers? I have 4 cellpro 4S chagers and would be able to charge 2 8S at a time if I can do this.

What is the major difference between the Gaui CF frame and the one you have pictured?

Also, do you make your own batteries?

[vicrc]

Thanks GP, I made the pack myself but I couldn't find any shrink wrap to fit this huge pack instead the reinforced shipping tape is very nice and strong. 8

I basically soldered in the balance tap similar to Thunder Power packs. No more Deans series connectors but I have two balanced plug, group A and group B. This works on my Hypersion 1012i charger with two LBA balancers as it should work on the TP chargers, just need appropriate adapters.

This frame is very nice, similar setup to my Trex 500, but better battery options. Even with the short tail it balances well on 8s A123 and for 6s Lipo 3300, I just place it little forward for best CG. The original plastic frame works well, flew that over 75 flights but dealing with separate batteries is a drag specially when it comes to charging a pack. The new frame makes it easy to build an 8s A123 packs from the Dewalt pack by just remove two cells and connector your leads, its that simple, probably harder to remove the cells from the casing if you don't have the security bit, I use a cut off wheel (carefully of course) to cut the screws.

Looks like the Cellpro 10 is a nice hi amp charger and it should work and for 180 the balancers is built in, not like my Hyperion 1012i. I don't know the Cellpro 4 can be networked.

If your looking to get the H550 don't get the motor and esc. Basic kit and get a CC HV 45 or 85, one day will invest in upgrading my ESC.

[gpach]

Thanks Vic

I was going to ask for direction on what "kit" to buy. Am looking at Fungs (Flying Heli) as he has the most options.

Was going to go with the CF frame and AL head kit and get the motor and ESC separately.
Can you post link to where you got your CF frame. I like the way the battery fits.

I think I would be better off with the plastic frame/metal head kit and then pick up the CH carbon fiber frame kit.

Will stop hijacking your thread regarding batteries and PM frame questions.

On the A123, how hard are they to make the packs. Do you have to solder jumpers from cell to cell or can you leave existing jumpers in place (if they exist).