New Phoenix HV (12s) controllers

[bob00]

Anybody had a chance to test the HV-85 (85A / 120g) or the HV-110 (110A / 150g) 12S controllers?

The Hacker controllers have worked great, but I've always wanted to be able to run a dual speed setup w/ 1450 on the head for hovering.

Do these controllers perform as well as the Hackers and will they work well running the motor at low speeds?

Thanks,
- Rob

[fitenfyr]

I am anxiously awaiting the results also.
Chris has one to test he told me on Wednesday.

I just want to be able to go up to 12s without spending as much for the controller as the packs. :D

[ChrisS]

Hello All

Hopefully I will get some info from this this weekend. I am really anxious to see how well it will work at partial throttle settings. The thing weighs better than 5 ounces so it may do this very well.

Sorry for the delay...but have you seen the weather reports for this part of the world lately? My lake is up better than 12 inch's! Shores have blown out 3 to 8 feet! A buttload of rain...every friggin' afternoon.

Chris

[misskimo]

Hey , Chris , dang , you need to go on nights so you can fly in the mornings :lol: 5 OZ :shock: almost as muc as my schulze 40-160 , at what half the cost :D
should go good with the lenher motor huh?

Tony

[Laddy]

I was at Disney World 3 weeks ago Chris and it was the start of your rain weather.
Cyndi told me the you have all kinds of bugs coming out now. :lol:

[MinAirChris]

Got some time on the control this weekend. So far so good. The "as shipped" programming is flyable but just barely. The over current protection, slow start and governor settings really need to be adjusted for proper use. I have not had a lot of time with it yet, so far just two cycles, one just messing with the setup to get things figured out and another full cycle at 50% of throttle...skids wobbled to whole time, 92 degrees ambient, 95% RH and the thing did not get hot. This is promising. Oh yeah, so far I'm just on a 10S4P battery with the 32-3...sorry, no numbers yet.

One thing it has that I am currious about is a brake. I know, sounds useless right? Not if it allows one to bail out of an auto.

Gotta get the Phoenix link though, I just don't like stick programming, although CC's is very good. According to CC, the Phoenix link works but only with the "Castle link" software available for download on their site...NOT the "Phoenix link" software that comes with the interface kit.

That's about all I can say for now. I'll be testing more of the functions and with higher voltage soon and I'll post back then.

Anyone else?

Chris

[bob00]

Thanks for the update Chris,

Are you testing the HV-110 or HV-85?

Took a closer look at both at the LHS tonight - the 110 looks like 3 separate ESC's + a controller board, the 85 = 2 ESC's + controller. Pretty cool idea to stack 'em in "brick" configuration, looks like a nice fit in the Ion frames.

I've got a Phx-cable - tempted to try the 110 in my Hacker Ion (the Actro is running too sweet to mess with right now :) ).

Planned settings...
- cutoff voltage: (24V) / disable
- over current disabled
- brake disabled
- fixed throttle
- low timing advance (0 - 15)
- soft cutoff

Main interest is a reliable dual speed setup - 1450 for hovering and wide open for upstairs, so I'd be doing most of my test flights at 1450.

Chris, any suggested precautions I should take?

- Rob

[ChrisS]

Hi Rob

I am currently testing the 110 amp. Yup, it's quite the brick. My reason for choosing this control was for the higher thermal properties it would have over the 85 amp...this for the part throttle thing (dual speed). I do not think that 110 amps is really necessary, especially when I go to 12S.

I also have one of the 45 amp units that I want to test in "another" application, still 12S but the current drain should be much lower. Actually, with wide open throttle, on 12S, the 48 amp version would probably handle the Ion-X well, for sure the 85 amp would. We flew the Hackler 48-3P's for a year or so with few problems on 10S.

Assuming you are running 10S, I'd alter your above settings to:

Cutoff voltage...30V
Over current...less sensitive than "as supplied" but not sure exactly where.
Brake...I'm thinking you might want this so that you can bail from an auto, but I have not tried this yet.
Timing advance...yup, lowest possible
Soft cutoff...I agree

Chris

[fitenfyr]

Chris,
I have a cable you can borrow for a bit if you need it, but the 25.00 investment is WELL worth it on the Castle stuff.
The program is VERY easy to use and works great.

[ChrisS]

Thanks Jason

I'm just gonna go over to the hobby shop after work and pick one up.

Tried to do this Friday, but the shops around here close at 7:00 P.M. and are not open on Sundays...

Chris

[ChrisS]

I'm likin' this control more and more, it has a really nice governor. Be sure to use it in the "fast governor" mode not the "slow governor" mode. I was flying the heli around last night with a head speed of around 1500 rpm...nothing strenuous, just loafing around. Nothing got hot.

Next step is going to be a 12S pack with the 32-3 and see if the governor can hold say 1900 without getting hot.

The phoenix link works great, you can make a change to the programming in a few seconds, plus you can save settings for later and read what is in the control currently.

Oh yeah, know that big crack and spark you get when you plug in other controls? This one doesn't do that.

Chris

[PDC]

Thanks for the testing job Chris!

Might be the perfect controller for me...look forward to see some more test results.

Paul

[bob00]

Thanks Chris,

"1500rpm - nothing got hot", exactly what I wanted to hear. Sounds like it should work well in a dual speed setup.

I'd selected "24V cutoff" and disabled "over current" because I'd thought I'd rather risk the power system than an unexpected abrupt shutdown, BUT after reading about how "soft cutoff" is implemented (should have been called "slow down") it looks like the best of both worlds are available - on low-voltage or over-current situations the controller will reduce power, not shutoff completely - cool.

- Rob

[gwk]

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but has anybody ever tried a Kontronik ESC on an Ion?

[ChrisS]

" but has anybody ever tried a Kontronik ESC on an Ion? " Shamefully, no. Other than some fixed wing applications, I have not done much at all with Kontronik. I have taken a good look at the Tango for the little machine, but otherwise...

Gary Goodrum has written a lot of good stuff on his findings with some of the new Kontronik controls in large helis over on the E-Zone, you may look there. You can get a hold of him at TP-packs.com.

Chris

[fitenfyr]

Hey Chris,
Plug that thing into the stock Hacker and see how it does for me will ya?

[MinAirChris]

O.K. but I'm gonna finish up with the Actro and 12S first, then I really wanted to go to 12S on the Neu with about 24:1 gearing, The Hacker would just drop in from there.

Is there something in specific you wanted to know?

Chris

[fitenfyr]

Just wondering how it will play into the efficency with those 800's we talked about.
If I can run the controller at say 80% and up the gearing what is that going to do to my flight times.
I would also like to be able to go back to having a 3D setup for the Ion. :D
That way I can at least go out and stress test the camera ship once a year.
You know for purely testing purposes. :D

[ChrisS]

Good question...

[misskimo]

hey , Karl and I are going out tonight and fly , its 1230 , and the sun is 1 month away from going down , I will run a test , dail down the esc in mode 1 to 60% to 70% , and tinker with it there , check temps , and log flight time , also I will do an abort auto and see how she spins back up , I do know that from 50% to 100% with the schulze 40-160 that its still in softstart

Tony

[misskimo]

Well Test Went Well, The Schulze 40-160 in the Fury Extreme!!!!!!

Motor was still spooling down and Fired It Back Up, She Did Soft And I Mean Soft Start, Took About 8 Seconds To Come Back To a Respectable Headspeed. Good Thing I Let My Cuzin Test It, He Got Up To ABout 250 feet and hit throttle hold dropped about 75 feet and flipped the switch back on, then she proceeded t auto tillshe spooled back up, he about had to abort it and just auto as it took 8 seconds to spool back to where he could fly it. It Came Back Online at about 40 feet, he planned on aborting the soft start and procede to finish the auto.

We Were Done Flyin After That, he was shakin pretty bad, and the battery was gettin low on the transmitter. i think i will purchase a new battery for my Tx.

To Sum It all Up, she will soft start even while the motor is still spinning!!!!!!

[MinAirChris]

That's cool Tony...thanks.

Chris

[bob00]

Got my HV-110 installed. Couple things to watch out for...

- my ESC was shipped w/ firmware version 1.5beta which has a known bug which causes the ESC to shutdown on spoolup when run in "reverse" mode. Upgrading to v1.61beta (latest) fixed this.

- the ESC is made up of 4 boards - 3 boards with the FETs + a controller board on top. The FET boards are pretty much soldered together, but the controller board is held in place only by it's connector and the thin heatshrink around the ESC. The HS has cutouts for the heat-sinks, but if you remove it or it breaks during handling be sure to use something to keep the controller board from comming loose.

A 10S4P gen2-lite battery was used for the test flight.

The initial setup used the "fixed" throttle setting (no govenor). There is no soft start in this mode. Spoolup is very fast, so one may want to go with a more gradual "nitro" style throttle curve here. There is also no soft transition between throttle settings in "fixed" mode - going from NORM mode (1450rpm) to IDLE-UP (2000rpm) happens instantly (kinda scary) - some delay on the THROTTLE channel should fix this.

Range check with the motor running is approx. 70% of what is is with the motor off. There was almost no loss observed with the Hacker. It was dark when I flew, so I didn't get too far away - will see if this is a real issue next time out. The good news is that the motor simply hunted as FAILSAFE kicked on and off with no major meltdown of anything.

I flew for about 9 minutes at approx. 1450 - no high load stuff, just lazy hovering NORMAL mode stuff, stopping to check temps. at the 2min and 6 min mark. As Chris noted nothing got hot. The controller was steady at 102deg, the Actro 32-3 measured 130deg - ambient temp. last night was 90deg. I expected the motor to be a little cooler given that it wasn't being worked very hard - this is usually the temp. after 8 min. or hard 3D.

It was really nice to fly the Ion at low headspeed for the first time. I'm pretty sure that this setup will handle bailing out of an auto, but I wouldn't try this until dialing in a bit of delay on releasing HOLD as I expect the spoolup would be way to violent.

I hope to give it a real workout to compare IDLE-UP performance to the Hacker. Also want to test govenor mode - the ESC will soft transition in this mode so programming delays at the Tx shouldn't be nescessary. Will be interesting to see how well the govenor mode holds up to an agressive 3D routine - right now the Hacker with a throttle curve and cyclic mixes is hard to beat.

If there's no performance loss at full throttle and Tx delays fix the abrupt throttle transitions (or perhaps govenor mode) then this will be a kick@ss ESC for the Ion.

So far I like it :).

- Rob

BTW: Shortening the ESC's 10 gauge leads a little during installation reduced the weight by 17g (0.6oz) to 132g (4.7oz), about 3oz heavier than the 77-O spec'd weight.

[ChrisS]

Cool Rob

You'll find that in governor mode with the softstart set at it's maximum, the startup will be very sedate, not as slow as the Hacker but just fine. Transitions from one speed to another seem fine, a little tail swing but nothing anyone can't handle.

The governor in this thing is killer, I am really liking it although you will find you have to dial down a little off of maximum in order to give the control some headroom to work with. If you run the governor at like 1600 rpm on the head, you can go full stick and the machine will not bog whatsoever for quite a while. At higher settings, it will still work but there just is not as much for the control to pull from and as the battery decays there is less and less.

It is cool to lounge around the field with a 32-3. Used to do this a couple of years ago with the Actronic controls, but that was another story altogether.

Oh yeah, almost forgot, use the "fast governor" mode.

Chris

[bob00]

"The governor in this thing is killer" - like the sound of this. I didn't try it initially because of past experience with ECS governors which just couldn't keep up nearly well enough with say fast tic-toks etc. I will have to give this a try.

About headroom... do you think the ESC / motor would handle an all out HARD 3D routine being dialed down to say 1850 - 1900 on the head (Actro 32-3 / ProLite / stock gearing), the headroom being between this setting and 100%?

Also, did you observe any reduction in range check with this motor running?

I like to warm up by hovering around (usually pirouetting) in NORMAL mode (1450) before going nuts upstairs - *really* cool to be able to do this with the Ion now :D.

If the HV-110 works well for the next little while I'll prob. try a HV-85 in the other Ion - save some weight.

Thanks,
- Rob