Autorotation and the Hacker 77 esc.

[PDC]

Hi!

I think it is a problem with this Hacker 77 esc. that you risk a fire if the motor is not stopped completely before you abort an autorotation, because how can you ever be sure the motor is stopped?.

Question. Is there a better esc. out there without this problem...or is this problem the same with all controllers? If yes! aborted autorotations and e-helis might be a bad combination in general.

Mine Hacker just made a BIG fire the other day after the heli was safely on the ground after an autorotation, and I thought the Actro motor was stopped....but it was not I guess....not an aborted auto, but just a rewind on ground for a new lift-off.

Lucky no big damage was made to the batteries and other components...... only because the Ion-X already was on the ground and I could quickly blow out the fire.

[ChrisS]

Yup, this is well documented both on these forums and in the docs.

As for other controls that will let you abort an auto, look for those with a brake or be very specific and ask the maker if the control automatically re-enters slow start at certain speeds. The feature of adjustable over current protection may also help alleviate this.

Right now the 110HV from CC is looking promising. The Schultze 40-160 will probably do it, ask Tony to give it a try.

Chris

[PDC]

Thanks Chris!

Will be looking for esc´s to a fair price where you can avoid this problem....also read about this problem here and on runryder and in the docs. I guess....please lets help each other stay tuned on which controllers can be / or already are programmed to avoid this specific problem..

Might be expensive the day you actually need to abort an auto, and the heli just ignites before it hits the ground...hard :bomb:

Thanks!

- Paul

PS. Sounds that a over current protection might be better than a slow start there are better than nothing or a fire...because the slow start might be too slow to abort, versus an over current protection there might be fast enough to abort safely....or am I wrong in this?


Wow....looks promissing

http://www.nesail.com/pictures/pp-phxhv110.jpg

http://www.castlecreations.com/products/airplane/brushless/phoenixhv-110.html

http://www.castlecreations.com/documents/Phoenix%20HV-110%20User%20Guide.pdf

Looks like it is on the market already, and that It is all we need incl. 12S support.

[MinAirChris]

I think it just depends on how things are done Paul. If you were on top of the auto and decided to abort high enough up so that you had time for the power to come back on...you might be O.K.

10 feet up and coming in fast...no way, I don't think we will ever get that kind of reaction.

Chris

[fitenfyr]

Chris,
Too bad the Castle won't let you program a hotter soft start to meet this condition.

I have not been willing to practice autos on my Ion for this reason.
I actually have to start to grow a set and give a couple a try, but without a back up platform I am not willing to gut the gears on a bad one yet. :D

[ChrisS]

"Too bad the Castle won't let you program a hotter soft start to meet this condition"

Actually, the control will let you adjust that. But you have to also contend with first time spoolup too. I messed with this ever so slightly, it can be done but is touchy.

What we really need is a good slowstart that works right after powerup and then something different after say 30 seconds into the flight...or after a certain speed or throttle percentage has been used. I intend to inquire about this when I report to CC.

The governor on this thing is really good. I can set the headspeed at 1500 rpm and go full collective without bogging the motor. Takeup is good too, little or no overspeed when you unload it after the long climb. If I had my gyro set a little more sensitive, I doubt I would notice any change at all.

Still no signs of heating or the dreaded radio interferance that we saw with other controls when you ran them for long periods at partial throttle...lookin' really good.

Chris

[misskimo]

hey , Chris , OK I will try it this weekend , if the wind comes down ,
hows the weather down there , up here is about 50 degrees ,

[ChrisS]

Oh you know, it's like 90+ every day...but then there is the threat of a LOT of wind at pretty much any time...

Don't you hate it when the wind has a name?

Chris

[fitenfyr]

What we really need is a good slowstart that works right after powerup and then something different after say 30 seconds into the flight...or after a certain speed or throttle percentage has been used. I intend to inquire about this when I report to CC.

That is what I was meaning not the inital soft start. Course that is not what I typed. :D

Wind has a name....now that's funny rit there now.....

[misskimo]

hey , youre wind has a full name , ours is a first name bases , DAMN WIND
well maybe the castle will work like the schulze ,

Tony

[fitenfyr]

Hah ain't that the truth.

Seemed like when the wind wasn't blowing up there you wondered what was wrong. :D

[Chachin]

PDC, what I would do (if I was continuously autorotating) is after landing go back to Normal mode and slowly ramp up via your throttle curve 0, 50, 80, XX, XX. Once at mid-stick flip to idle up 1 and fly. I don't think this method would damage your ESC (regardless whether motor is stopped or not) since it's just like spooling up for the first take off.

Good luck!

Chachin..

[BobbySmith]

Hehe JASON
you will find the ION autos like a dream i love doing autos with mine!! i have even done some forced inverted autos and it does it N/P

The werid thing is i have gotten so use to autos. i dont even bail wiht my Nitro machine once i comitt to a auto i do it and land it

What i usely do wiht my ION is let it spool down and then hit the IDLE 1 switch and take off again teh main thing is to make sure the motor isnt spinning. I auto @ the end of every flight that way it keeps me in check

just my 2cents
Bobby

[Darren S]

is what Chachin wrote a viable option for continuous autorotations?

i know it doesn't address the aborted auto issue, but if i were to auto in, flip to normal mode, let the heli spool up, flip to Idle 1 and then go.... would that work ? or does the motor have to stop spinning completely as previously documented ?

i have an ion coming in the mail and plan to use the Actro and Hacker 77-O.

thanks, darren

[misskimo]

hey , if the motor is running the esc (hacker) will ramp up to 100% within a second , what he is saying is right , but the motor has to stop turning ,

[BobbySmith]

If the motor is turning and you try to restart it wiht the hacker you take a chance of smoking the ESC


Bobby

[PDC]

PDC, what I would do (if I was continuously autorotating) is after landing go back to Normal mode and slowly ramp up via your throttle curve 0, 50, 80, XX, XX. Once at mid-stick flip to idle up 1 and fly. I don't think this method would damage your ESC (regardless whether motor is stopped or not) since it's just like spooling up for the first take off.

Good luck!

Chachin..

What I normaly do is to let it spool down, switch to normal, switch THR HOLD off, and then go directly to idle 1 or 2 as I always do for a normal start. I have never had problems with this procedure. Sure your way might be even more bullet proof.

This last time when I did make a nice little firework for my friends (really looked great with BIG beautifull flames) I for the first time did not switch off idle 1 before THR HOLD, but did simply just flip THR HOLD off (think this is a part of the story too), and instantly I had some nice big flames making the schrink on the battery´s fit even better ;-).

Aggree with Chriss that you can establish procedures to avoid the effect of exceeding known limits on a certain piece of hardware, but simply just think it is nicer if I dont at all have to worry about igniting a corn field if I dont follow an established procedure.

I am old enough to have seen with my own eyes (on B/W tv) how you great Americans could land on the moon with the help from a computer less powerfull than the computer you today get for "free" in Mcdonnalls electronic toys for kids, so I am sure it too is possible to make a esc. with a more or less fool proof autorotation feature. Especially if it is CC making it, who I have got the impression over the last couple of years are very minded for listening to feedback from the end users, and very good to "new thinking".

[Darren S]

i haven't bought the esc for the ion yet so i am following this post closely. i assumed i would be getting the hacker esc, but now i'm not sure.

i'm ok with not being able to abort an auto as i land all of my autos anyways, it's just the spool up part that has me worried a bit.

with my old Raptor, on the odd occasion i would have a brain fart and accidentally flip the throttle hold off before switching back to normal mode. the heli would scream out and instantly i would realize what i'd done and turn the throttle hold back on and then flip to normal mode. no damage to the heli.

my fear with the Hacker is that if a similar brain flatulation occured it seems i run the risk of stripping gears all to hell and/or fire. neither of which i want with my $3000 heli.

i haven't got a clear picture on how one knows the motor has completely stopped. do you pilots go up to the heli and check ? do you stop the blades from spinning with the head button ? and then go again ?

other than the big schluze that Tony uses, i haven't read of any other esc's with a saftey/soft start built in. some one needs to get a good thread going on the new CC esc. or let me know where i can read more on it.

like i said previously, i don't so mind a 8 second spool up once the throttle hold is off, just as long a i have some time in case of a brain ........ well you know.


darren

[fitenfyr]

Bobby,
I know it does. I have seen Russ auto his many times.
I just have a habit of overshooting when I am playing around and like others have said. Habit is to flip out of hold and go around with the nitro. Don't want to make that mistake on the Ion. :D
Soon as I get the gasser online 100% then I can do some autos. In fact I want to do some practice autos with the mount on to see how it reacts.
Right now if something goes ooops...I will have to find out the hard way what collective works and how fast it is coming down. :D

[Russ McC]

Hi Darren,

It is vary easy to see the main gear, if it is stopped then just release hold with idle up still on and it will soft start. After the model, particularly the split gear has loosened up then there won’t be any problem releasing hold very soon after landing your auto. Get what you want but don’t let this subject keep you from the Hacker if that’s your choice, for me it has been a non issue.

[BobbySmith]

Darren i would go with the Hacker also! I run the Hackers in both my IONS with no issues

Bobby

[Darren S]

ok, thanks for the advice guys. as you know, when researching things it's easy to get focused on the negative issues and forget the positives.

as with all aspects of heli flying, a little extra care and attention to detail is needed and i'm ok with that.

thanks again,

darren

[Albig]

I don't have any problems at all flipping the hold switch back on with my e-helis. I use Schulze 32.55s, Actronic 70-32s and I have used a Phoenix 80 in the past as well. Keep your throttle hold set to keep the motor running at a slow speed during the auto. not enough to fly the heli just enough to keep the motor running. If you need to bail they'll spin right up if the blades aren't stopped. The worst that's happened to me is a little piro action before you get tail authority. If you've got any head speed at all you shouldn't blow any gears. You likely will if you flip off hold on the ground without going back to low stick in normal, spinup up is pretty quick.

I haven't had a Hacker Master since they re-designed them but the old ones really left a lot to be desired.

I'm real intersted in the Phoenix HVs also. I'll think I'll start with the 85HV. I mean 4000Ws! If that's not enough it's time for a new hobby :twisted:

Al

[Tabbytabb]

Al, same here 32.55K on my jokers and Ions and I dont think you can get the thing to hot start, at least I have not been able to.

I shoot autos with the joker and flip right out of hold back into Idl1 with the actro still spinning and she spools up as smooth as ever.

It is a bit spendy but the 32.55 has been a bullet proof ESC for me so far.

The CC's look very interesting as well!

Tabb

[PDC]

Thanks for the information Albig and Tabbytabb, will not buy the Hacker esc. next time.

The little extra you pay for a quality esc., apart from the extra nice features it might have, could quickly be earned back if you dont have to worry about auto´s and fire´s.