Do Upgraded Gyro and Servos Really Matter on the B400?

[Shark_Fin]

Hi all,

I've read that a lot of pilots have chosen to upgrade their gyro as well as servos on their Blade 400s. I have all of 17 flying sessions on my 400 and truthfully it is my first collective machine. I understand servos that have metal gears are not as prone to stripping. If some of you more expereinced pilots wouldn't mind chiming in I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to understand if these upgrades really make a difference that I will notice or if the hobbyist in all of us just enjoys tinkering :thumbup:.

Servos
Outside gear strength, is the extra torque and centering capability really making a difference? I find my stock 400 to respond very well with the stock servos. I've seen a lot of posts that state the servos are junk. I'd like to have some insights based on flight performance as to why.

Gyro
The stock gyro seems to hold the tail just fine for me, granted I'm doing nothing more than hovering and forward flight. Perhaps someone could explain where a better gyro would make a difference on the B400?

If I rememmber correctly, most of the servo/gryo upgrades add additional weight. Has anyone who made the upgrades experienced decreased flight times (relatively speaking of course) or sluggish performance?

Thanks eveyone

[LockMD]

I thought the same thing, stock was pretty solid. Then came 401/3400g and 285's on the cyclic. WOW! I thought it was solid before!!! Night and Day difference.

[sparx-]

Hi all,

I've read that a lot of pilots have chosen to upgrade their gyro as well as servos on their Blade 400s. I have all of 17 flying sessions on my 400 and truthfully it is my first collective machine. I understand servos that have metal gears are not as prone to stripping. If some of you more expereinced pilots wouldn't mind chiming in I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to understand if these upgrades really make a difference that I will notice or if the hobbyist in all of us just enjoys tinkering :thumbup:.

Servos
Outside gear strength, is the extra torque and centering capability really making a difference? I find my stock 400 to respond very well with the stock servos. I've seen a lot of posts that state the servos are junk. I'd like to have some insights based on flight performance as to why.

Gyro
The stock gyro seems to hold the tail just fine for me, granted I'm doing nothing more than hovering and forward flight. Perhaps someone could explain where a better gyro would make a difference on the B400?

If I rememmber correctly, most of the servo/gryo upgrades add additional weight. Has anyone who made the upgrades experienced decreased flight times (relatively speaking of course) or sluggish performance?

Thanks eveyone

If you are just hovering and doing foward flight, there is not reason to upgrade those componants other then if you want to spend alot of money for no reason at all.

Why upgrade servos? If you are going Precision flying or HARD 3D, then better servos will benefit you.

As for the Gyro. Again for how you are flying you would not see any real benefit. There is not denying that a better gyro is nice to have, but it not a "needed" upgrade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HquwtppkYzA

If you think you can fly better then that, you might wanna think about it. That flight was done on stock servos and gyro.

SPaRX

[sokal]

mostly in a hover the stock was fine
but once you start geting on the power to this beast the servo/gyro cant compensate fast enought so you will end up with a yaw effect when power is increased. in FF flight gyro will be ok is the rapid changes in torque from the rotor system that the stock system is not great for. with the 401/3400 its always locked in no matter what full climbout fast tail turns always qiuck and solid and no manualy trim the tail to help counter yaw with stock

also the tail need much torque in the servo to push this thing around and stop it dead

[sparx-]

mostly in a hover the stock was fine
but once you start geting on the power to this beast the servo/gyro cant compensate fast enought so you will end up with a yaw effect when power is increased. in FF flight gyro will be ok is the rapid changes in torque from the rotor system that the stock system is not great for. with the 401/3400 its always locked in no matter what full climbout fast tail turns always qiuck and solid and no manualy trim the tail to help counter yaw with stock

also the tail need much torque in the servo to push this thing around and stop it dead

Have you watched the above video I linked? I would really like to know how you came up with your statements?

SPaRX

[GreenBar0n]

Have you watched the above video I linked? I would really like to know how you came up with your statements?

SPaRX

Hey SpaRX, are you the guy in the video?

[sokal]

for 1 im sure thats not his first heli
and if u read his tread in RR he says its not the best but will do
im just saying if you look in to the heli world thier a few common things one is the 401 the other is a strong and fast tail servo and quick cyclic servos and the eflite ones are fine but thier just cheap i had 2 burn out on me and i have yet to crash all from regular servo movement. servo/gyro change is not a mandatory upgrade but a very good upgrade
if and when u deside to upgrade you will see what we all mean about the servo/gryo
and see why it was night and day. but till then you will never know and will think that your setup is the %%$##^%%$ until u feel the diffrence for yourself.

[sparx-]

if and when u deside to upgrade you will see what we all mean about the servo/gryo
and see why it was night and day. but till then you will never know and will think that your setup is the %%$##^%%$ until u feel the diffrence for yourself

Might have been a good idea to ask me what experience I have in gyros and servos before you made that statement. I have Esky Rate Gyros, Esky HH gyros, and RCT-730 gyros (same as a 401) and I have Futaba 9650, Futaba 9257, Spectrum DSP75, Futaba 3154 servos that I have used on my helis. And I do NOT agree with your statements. The only thing a 401 does is allows you to foget about the tail which is a BAD thing for a new flyer. You need to learn to fly the tail when you are starting out. That is a very IMPORTANT part of learning to fly helicopters.

for 1 im sure thats not his first heli


It is statements like this that bug me. SO you are saying instead of LEARNING to fly like him, meaning learning to fly a helicopter, it is is better to take the easy road and get a High performance gyro that wil not make a bit of difference while you are learning FFF and Aeros. Why is it that people do this. Hey here is an idea, instead of BUYING your skills, how about you actually aquire them through LEARNING TO FLY!

and if u read his tread in RR he says its not the best but will do


And what is wrong with that? You want the best then buy the best. I do not see any problem with that. But I do see a problem with people in these forums telling new flyers that they NEED this stuff if they want to fly a helicopter when that is NOT the case. They do not NEED $200+ worth of equipment on the tail of a helicopter to fly it. What they need to do is LEARN how to fly it.

eflite ones are fine but thier just cheap i had 2 burn out on me

And where were these servos when they burned up on you? Were they on your tail? Are you 100% sure that the reason they burned up was not due to you setting the tail up wrong? If you do not mechanically tuen the tail of heli, you will burn up any servo on the market because you are going to overwork the servo.

SPaRX

[sparx-]

You want to know why this really bothers me so much. Because I see it everyday. People putting their helicopters up for sale because they already dropped $400-500 dollars on it and then they come to all these RC forums on the net and people tell them that they are not going to be able to fly it unless they put another $200-300 in the helicopter. THis is absolute BS and very discouraging to a new RC flyer. The fact is , the Blade 400 will fly just fine STOCK for a new flyer for a very long time. Things break. No amount of money spent on electronic is going to give you the insurance that your heli will not crash or break.

SPaRX

[JustPlaneChris]

Amen SPaRX! You said it. :thumbup:

[sokal]

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=41634&stc=1&d=1205284941ok my friend
i wasnt saying the stock system is bad its just not the best

my history
1 iv flown a UH-1H talk about tail conroling would hve loved to have smething hel me thier

and the biggst thing my first eli was the Blade CP Pro and everything i can do with my B400 i can do with my BCPP nd for moths i had it stock except plastic blades
no HH gyro tock servos and i could hver just a solid s i do now probly the reason i do so well with the B400.

and as for my servos they burn up on thier own everythingwasriged and centered properly had aout 30 flight on it in stok config flew the same i do now. i acuated the servo and if froze so i looked in to better servos and tats why i have them.

and ive never told anyone that the NEEEDED to buy new servos. just Recomended
andyes when i changed to my sevo package i have now its a night an day diffrence
that is why i recommend servo chnge

im not trying to have a war with you or anyone they asked how i like the servos and i tell them.

and yes learn to fly it is the Goal. we all want too get to.


as i see i guess i cant fly my heli because i decided to buy better servos man i thought i was doing something wrong.

man i can remember when i used to fly the BCPP and had to hold the tail with my fingers to stop the tail drift it acualy was hard for me to learn how not to do so with the B400


but hey its a hobby u do with it what you want and ill stop recomending things and helping people sice i dont know what im doing

so ill go back to flying

[sokal]

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36391&d=1201050597
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36392&d=1201050597
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36398&d=1201050630
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36406&d=1201052017
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36401&d=1201051945
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=36403&d=1201051945
I NEED HELP RIGGING THIS
IV Spent $34,000,000 Already
I THINK I NEED BETTER SERVOS ANDS A GYRO
i might as well sell it

[Menace]

Look im not jumping in here to join the fight but I just want to share my experience. I was flying a Blade CX2 for about 2 months. I got pretty good at it and it was a lot of fun. My fiancee decided to buy me the Blade 400 for Valentines Day. I used everything the way it came and I was able to learn basic hovering and some forward flight. The tail did move around on me and I was always trimming it but I was able to handle it. Not too long ago I was coming in for a landing and I accidently touched the tail blades on the ground. I ended up stripping the tail servo some how.

I had been looking through these forums and I saw a lot of people RECOMMENDED the GY401 and various upgraded tail servos. Just like my cars, I decided to replace with better parts. I bought the GY401 and the 9257. After I got the heli running, it was like night and day. I STILL had to learn forward flight and tail management. Obviously more expensive parts are and SHOULD operate better than the stock ones. I dont see anything wrong with people recommending these items as they do make the heli fly a heck of a lot better. I dont think it has anything to "buying your skill" because I know I still have a lot of learning to do.

Short version: Yes it makes a difference. Only you can decide if you want to upgrade and spend the money.

[GreenBar0n]

Nobody here told anybody, that I am aware of, that servo and gyro replacement were mandatory, in fact I think I remember sokal saying on a few posts just to stick with stock gear while you are new and then consider upgrading.

I chose to upgrade the servos after a minor tip stripped my elevator servo. I read about all the problems people were having, including experienced pilots, with servos stripping mid-flight and actually creating the crash in the first place. This was the main reason I was able to justify the upgrade.

And once you get started upgrading... well you know how that story turns out.

The best thing about buying quality upgrades is that they can transfer to new heli's if the situation arises.

For now though, I am flying a Porsche on a VW chassis :noteworthy.

Thanks for the all the help and good advice sokal, keep up the good work.

[rudderman]

I love my hs65mg servo futaba GY401 and 9257 best upgrade yet :thumbup:

[Shark_Fin]

Thank you all for your insight.

SPARX - Thanks for posting the video. I was very impressed by the pilots skill. I am no where near that level and I feel good about my stock setup being sufficient for quite sometime. I appreciate your emphasis, especially to all of us rookies, on learning to properly fly the helicopter and learn the basics that will make learning all other manuvers that much easier. I know we all get excited to try new manuvers and upgrade parts. Your wisdom cannot be denied about learning to fly correctly from the start.

Sokal - I understand your experience of the gears stripping from normal wear. Perhaps I need to add servo gear inspection to my list of regular maintenance and replace the gears when I notice some wear to avoid what happened to you. Maybe E-flite or Spektrum will release a metal gear replacement kit sometime.

Thanks

[Gr4yb3ard]

Sokal,

I know it's an expensive hobby, but that swash plate is too heavy, you need some more carbon, know where you can get one for only $1.2 million ;-)

Gr4yb3ard

[Friedclutch]

Great thread guys. The "real" heli pics are facinating. FWIW I've got ~20 flights on all stock gear except I got a couple Lightning Power 2200 25c packs for it. The tail does drift as the battery uses but I've gotten so good at popping in some tail trim mid flight I dont care. The slightly drifting gyro isn't really THAT bad and my rudder skill is increasing.
I'm sure as my experience progresses I'll upgrade the tail equipment and work my way onto the ccpm servos.

EDIT: BTW That mammoth swash on the dual rotor UH1 is really impressive! Thanks for the photos sokal.

[sokal]

its a CH-47 but thanks

shes a beast

[carlo_the_wonder_frog]

Better gyro, better servos all around. When E-Flite made the videos of the blade 400 flying around they used upgraded servos and a good HH gyro.the stock equipment isn't total crap, you can fly it just fine, the main problem stems from noob flyers who try to do too much too soon. You hit the main blades on the ground and I can almost guarantee that some of those cyclic servos will break gears, the gyro will hold ok until you start trying some of the harder maneuvers, then watch out for unintended yawing which will screw a noobies sense of orientation so fast that a crash is inevitable.

The reason people suggest the 401 and HS-65Mg servos with a 9257 for the tail is because these components are proven to work extremely well. The 65MGs will survive most crashes, even the really bad ones. the 401 holds so well that you will never have to trim the rudder in mid flight and the 9257 is one of the smoothest TR servos I have ever used. truely a huge difference in the helis performance.

In short...learn to fly your heli in its stock configuration first and as you break parts upgrade them to better components. You do not have to upgrade it before you fly it, its just going to work a whole lot better if you do.

[Kindling Maker]

Love the Texas sticker on the chinook just below the swash plate. If anything needs a HH gyro it is a chinook. Everytime I get in one of those double headed dumptrucks I get vertigo. But it is a marvel of areonautic engineering. I had just asked about flying the tail. I am still flying stock, I dumped alot of money into the CPPro and it was at best a manhole cover that would hover. I will upgrade as stuff breaks. But I am just hovering and FF so as long as I treat it nice it SHOULD treat me nice. It takes 2 weeks to get parts.

[CoptrDoctr]

FYI. The Texas sticker on the swahplate is from the U.S. Army Aviation Depot repair facility in Corpus Christi, Texas iindicating this component was last overhauled at their facility.

[sokal]

yes good OL corpus great at giving us referb parts that dont hold up

i think thier rate 1 out of 5 are good
jk

since the 47 is a old airframe alot of paerts must be overhualed every X amount of hours
ad some time quality control slacks a bit

[Kindling Maker]

A DC-3 has to have the wings pulled every 10,000s to Xray the wings. That gets real expensive.

[CoptrDoctr]

I know what you mean Sokal! I work in PM Cargo Helicopters at Redstone. We're in the process of replacing all those old airframes with brand spanking new CH-47Fs, but most of the dynamic components are recapped back to zero TBOs by Boeing. But since they're the same components used on the D model, the units we field will still get some through the supply chain that were rebuilt by CCAD.