installed the Z20, couple of questions.

[istandalone]

i got around to installing my Z20 980kv last night, along with finishing up the install and set-up of the 7c fasst tx/rx. first question- on this motor, when you turn it over by hand, it's really tight. i'm not sure about how to word this, but it seems to have alot of "compression" if you will. is it just that the magnets are stronger in this motor then the RCP motor, hence the hard turn over? also, on the RCP if i grip the motor around where the mounting holes are and wiggle the shaft vertically there is a bit of play, which i've seen in almost every motor i've owned. the Z20 has none. no play what-so-ever. is that normal?

[dave26985]

Yes I believe this is normal, The magnets are very strong and their is no slop in this motor. Mine is the same way and it is performing excellently. I remember that the mega motor that I put in my Stryker a couple years ago was the same way. Just one indication of a very efficiant motor I guess.
Later,... Dave.

[istandalone]

you've put my mind at ease, dave. thanks! i figured that was the case, but better safe then sorry in this hobby. i'd hate to put my 550 in the dirt from a seized (brand new) motor. i'm testing it today with three different batterys. 1st, a pair of KP 2200's. 2nd, a pair of 4 cell a123 packs and 3rd a pair of FP evo30 3200's. all with a 14t pinion, stock main gearing and the 20t OWB pinion. i was only getting less then 4 minutes on the KP's and the other two pairs of packs are brand new, only broken in.
it also just dawned on me that maybe some of my tail vib issues were coming from the slop that was/is present in the RCP motor. someone else here stated that he thinks alot of the vib issues originated from the motor (although i'm not sure which motor dude was refering to), and it would make sense if that is the issue. i also used no washers mounting my RCP to the mount, as it didn't come with any. the Z20 did, so i used them. i'll post back if anything changes for the better.

[xodarap1]

It's strange that you got less than 4 minutes with the KP's. I have 8 KP 2200 25C's. I'm running two each flight in series on my H550 with the Z20A motor and the 16T pinion, stock gearing, 500 CF or wooden blades.. and I have gobs of power and can fly light 3-D for 5:45, then land with some power to spare. The batteries have performed very well. If I stay in normal mode, just cruising around doing FFF, bank turns and figure 8's, I can easily get over 6:30 out of pair of the KP's. I'm only running 70% and 77% on my S1 and S2 throttle mid points on the DX7. I wonder if you are running your throttle curve way high with that 14T? Maybe that's the difference?
I seriously think that all these posts of people getting 3 or 4 min run times with 2200 batteries are because they are using the wrong gearing or pinions to maximize performance/flight time. The Z20A motor is powerful and doesn't need to run super fast rpm with lower pinions to give great flights. There is plenty of torque to spin a 16T without bogging for light 3-D.. and bumping up the throttle will give plenty of pop for hard 3-D and solid 4:30 min run times.
Steve

[xfaega]

Sounds to me that your gear mesh is not loose enough. You should be able to have the Z20 spin freely when you spin the main shaft. If it feels tight you need to gap the Motor pinion and the first gear. This will also help you get more flight time out of your pack.

[Madedon]

A good tip in order to get your gear mesh loose enough is to put between your motor pinion and first gear a 2mm peace of paper and then tight your motor to that position. Then remove the paper and you are good to go.

[bjosko]

It is strange that your motor are hard to turn, my was very soft, compared to the original Gaui 1100KV. Mine Z20 / 980KV are the Tonic-X from Helidirect.
As other says, check the gear-mesh.¨

Another thing that i discover, if you have the CNC arm for swash, check the bolts that hold the link balls, mine, the original bolts from the kit was to long, and touched the motor.

BTW, I am running close at 7 minutes flat 100 % with 14 T pinion and basic flying on 7S A123. (5,5 min on the stock Gaui 1100 KV).
I tached the HS to 2085 rpm with 0 degrees pitch, so I will try to install a larger pinion.

[istandalone]

It's strange that you got less than 4 minutes with the KP's. I have 8 KP 2200 25C's. I'm running two each flight in series on my H550 with the Z20A motor

this was with the RCP motor, 1100kv. i've not timed it yet with the Z20.

You should be able to have the Z20 spin freely when you spin the main shaft

the tightness i felt is with the motor uninstalled. i've come to the conclusion that it's just the magnets. once you get it spinning it feels normal.

if you have the CNC arm for swash, check the bolts that hold the link balls, mine, the original bolts from the kit was to long, and touched the motor

i had the same issue. had to grind down the screws a bit. all set now. my gear mesh is perfect, believe me. all of these "issues, well questions came to light before i even installed the motor. thanks though, can't be too careful. i did a few test spool ups last night, and this is the result. mind you, these are all with a 14t pinion, 890kv Z20, stock gearing and zero pitch.
FP evo 6 cell lipo 85% throttle 2040rpm, 95% throttle 2190rpm
A123 8 cell 85% throttle 2130rpm, 95% throttle 2250rpm
it was too windy yesterday afternoon to actually test flight times, as just hovering around and taching was pretty nerve racking. what's a good HS to shoot for? the 8 cell a123 felt way more powerful then i need. maybe i'll drop it down to 7 cell a123. that way it'll balance better too. the 6 cell lipo, just under 2200rpm felt the best. would 2200rpm be a good number? idk really anything about min and max headspeed, so i'm at the mercy of y'alls suggestions. thanks!

[Kepler]

Has anyone ever noticed that if you power up you ESC with the main fight pack then disconnect the battery, with your ESC still getting power from your RX flight pack, the motor feels tight to turn. Then you turn the power off to the RX and then the motor turns nice a free again. I run a separate RX pack but it seems that the with RX battery power still to the ESC, to motor is still held under some sort of magnetic flux.

[mysticmead]

that sounds normal.. the channels all share power across the same bus bar (that's how you can use an ESC w/BEC and power your servos). the RX battery should have enough power to at least provide some sort of electricity to the motor.. not enough to spin it up.. but it's still there

[concept1]

yep mine does that, i first figured that out after setting my gear mesh, I went back and spun it again and freeked out, I could hardly turn things.. came back later and it was fine! started playing with it and it got hard again.. then I realized what I was doing!! turning the rx on and off.

[woz]

Kepler That is normal and even happens with my little HDX450 motor.
If I am correct the outer casing of the Z20 is just held on through the magnetic forces alone- this IMHO is a great motor and well manufactured and have been pretty impressed with it but am also getting short flight times
6 minutes with Aplus 3300mah running 13T std OWB std front and rear gear .
Must look at the 14 or 15T pinion.

[istandalone]

i thought a smaller pinion would give longer flight times, and a larger pinion will give shorter flight times? do i have that backwards?

[mjdee14]

i thought a smaller pinion would give longer flight times, and a larger pinion will give shorter flight times? do i have that backwards?

Sometimes that is true, but think of a car....would you get better milage on a trip driving in first or second gear all the way? NO....same with the Z20....it may spin faster and use less torque on a 13t but the motor isn't running to it's best potential.

I have been running a 14t and on 3300 if I just flew around I could easily get 9 - 10 min, maybe more.....I have just never been able to just take it easy.....this heli begs to be tossed around...even if it's not 3d...it's fun doing max climbs, hard turns....loops, stalls, etc. I have steadily seen my flight times drop as I get a little better with the heli, but it's worth it.

I can definately see a Z30 down the road....maybe when I put the Cf version in the air.

Just bought a set of Zippy 3300's to replace the (Polyquests ) I $%^%$^% 'd up..

[skydude]

Just bought a set of Zippy 3300's to replace the ones I $%^%$^% 'd up..

Did I miss something or am I having a senior moment? What happened to the zips?

--

[mjdee14]

Did I miss something or am I having a senior moment? What happened to the zips?

--

I'm sorry...In another post I explained that I ruined two brand new polyquest 3300's by charging on the wrong setting.....i'm colorblind and thought I was on the Green lipo setting, but was on the yellow, nmh setting.....both new lipos ballooned up the size of baseballs....luckily, not fire...just ruined lipos...and I was very aggrevated..

I just got an e mail last night that the Zippy 3300's were back in stock.....and although I wasn't going to.....the old Paypal got the best of me.....

I would like to get a Z30 some day and the 3300's will work much better.

[Pinecone]

Except with electric motors they make the most torque and draw the most current at 0 RPM. The higher the RPM for a given motor, the lower the current draw.

[Kepler]

Sometimes that is true, but think of a car....would you get better milage on a trip driving in first or second gear all the way? NO....same with the Z20....it may spin faster and use less torque on a 13t but the motor isn't running to it's best potential.


mjdee, I think your analogy is a little off in this case. Its all about how fast you spin the head. 13 tooth spins the head slower = less current regardless if you consider it to be first gear. I get an extra minute from my Z30 going from a 14 tooth to 13 tooth.

[istandalone]

i guess efficiancy, HS and pinion size, flight times will depend on flying style too. i guess it's possible to get longer flight times just hovering with a 14t then a 13t.

[mjdee14]

mjdee, I think your analogy is a little off in this case. Its all about how fast you spin the head. 13 tooth spins the head slower = less current regardless if you consider it to be first gear. I get an extra minute from my Z30 going from a 14 tooth to 13 tooth.

Kepler..

I agree with you.....what I meant was we have to try and keep the motor in the sweet spot....on one other post a guy was running the correct pinion but had the TC to low and the motor overheated....he upped theTC and everything was fine.

Electrics are great but you really need to balance, speed, amp draw, c rating, and a few more.....plus it depends on what performance you are looking for.

I dropped from a 15t back to a 14t to do exactly what you said...get a little more flight time....now that I'm used to it....I will go back to the 15t and maybe even go to a bigger motor....the headspeed can get addicting after a while.