E-Raptor question

[henrik04]

Just curious if you guys flying the TT E-620 use the 90 or 140 degrees swash plate such as: http://www.infinity-hobby.com/main/product_info.php?cPath=32_84&products_id=1088

If you did the swap, please tell us why and how better (or worse) your E-620 became.

Thank you.

Happy flying.

[Vinger]

Cannot comment on 620, but it really transformed my E550. Bit of a pain to setup in the DX7, but I reckon it is well worth the cost and effort. I eventually fitted the CSM Cyclock and that really made a big differance.

[henrik04]

Thank you Vinger for the reply. (You must be the only one flying 140 degrees E-raptor LOL.
I guess you're talking about the mixer or did you fit 2 x SL720 as well?

Happy flying.

[stevehonn]

I moved to the 140 swash from the stock 90 on my E550 pretty quickly and noticed a big improvement. I found that with the original 90 swash because two servos are working on aileron but only one on elevator, the controls weren't very well harmonised and elevator seemed 'sticky' and didn't centre as well.

I think what Vinger is getting at is that the DX7 only does 90 and 120 swash, not 140 degree so you have to use one of the free mixers get it to work properly. Fitting a Cyclock means you just set the transmitter up for 90 degree and program the Cyclock to do all the mixing for you, the added advantage is that the Cyclock re-orders the signals to the swash servos so they move in time.

[henrik04]

Thank you stevehonn. Very instructive. I have a JR 9XII and there is a 140 swash selection. As I still have the 90 swash plate, And was going to order a bunch of parts to save on freight from http://www.infinity-hobby.com/main/index.php?cPath=32_84 Wanted to have more info on this issue.

In the E-620 build video from Bob Finless, he says that he is doing a "90 bird" for now".. Though I haven't seen yet a 140 video build. When you change the 90 to 140 swash plate, I think that you need to move the two arms (pitch and aileron) forward on the frame?

I clearly see your point about reordering the signals in time.. If the 'new' angle orders arrive at the same time on the 3 cyclic servos, must be more precise than to send them sequentially as does any radio.

You guys convinced me and I'm going to 'copy' your good ideas. (140 swash and Cyclock mixer).

Not sure the "other half" is going to see all the advantages, but hey! that's her problem! LOL

Happy flying.

[stevehonn]

I'm flying mine with a JR 9XII and using the 140 swash setting, I'm not using a Cyclock and don't really notice a problem but have one available that I might fit later, although it's in a Hughes 500E scale fuselage now so it's not so critical! I'd certainly give it a try with the 140 swash setting on your 9XII first before buying a Cyclock, you might not feel the need.

[henrik04]

Thank you stevehonn for the comment. As you have done it already, could you please tell me how do you setup the phasing ring with the 140 degrees swash plate?

I did follow Bob Finless video to setup the phasing ring with my 90 degrees, and that is pretty straightforward but on a 140 degrees one you can't align the top and bottom.

Thank you in advance.

Happy flying.

[stevehonn]

Phasing ring? I presume this is because you have the metal headblock where the phasing ring is adjustable. If so I would set it up pretty much as Bob describes but just aligning the top. I've actually got the Kasama head fitted to mine so I didn't have this problem.

[henrik04]

You're absolutely right. This is my second E-620 and it doesn't yet have the Kasama head on it.. But it's coming soon.. LOL.

Happy flying

[Vinger]

I set mine to straight for-aft and used the cyclock to fine tune it. It basically only needs adjusting if you find that during hard elev pull or push that there is unwanted aileron or roll effect. CSM gives agreat explanation in there online manual, and as it is adjustable via USB cable it is a quick process with the laptop at the field. On my 550 I did not need any adjustment, me thinks TT got it right with the head design.:noteworthy

[henrik04]

Vinger, I take your words for it.

However even if they got the design right the main rotor plastic grips, plastic arms do not give me any confidence whatsoever.
When you add the price off these, metal version, you aren't far off the price of the full Kasama head.
This is why I bought the Kasama for my other E-620 in the first place.

But maybe things have changed.. I'll check again.

Happy flying.

[Vinger]

The plastic grips is definately good enough for me, TT even uses plastic on their new 90 3D. I agree the metal head is worth it. I believe to have a "weak" link in the head, so that not everything bends and breaks during the inevitible contact with mother earth!!!!

I have the Kasama head on my miniT, but dissappointed with the amount of work I had to do to make it fit.I have the HTC (Hobby Taiwan) full metal head on my E550 and it was not anything better than the standard head. What really transformed the heli (E550) was the 140 deg swashplate and the CSM Cyclock. I think the Cyclock is what actually made the biggest difference. Every Heli should have it as it allows the full resolution of the radio to be used and not just a third of the steps you get with an radio swash mix.

[henrik04]

Tell me Vinger.. Assuming that I buy the CSM Cyclock with the 140 degrees swash plate, should I set up the swash on 140, 120 or 90 degrees on my JR9XII?

Did you place a mixer on your E-325 as well? I suppose it can't hurt if it's that good.. As it is pretty affordable I'm definitely going to try. (You could work in a LHS, you would make a killing LOL).

Regarding the Kasama head the only thing I don't like is the heating business to insert the bearings in the grips... Gee if I need to change them It's not going to be a fun party!

Beside, as said Bob Finless in it's build video, it is hard to understand how the thrust bearings can work being completely restraint with no play at all.

Happy flying.

[Vinger]

This from the Cyclock manual:

Transmitter settings
Turn off CCPM mixing in the transmitter. The CSM mixer takes separate collective, elevator and aileron signals and performs all the mixing functions for CCPM.
.
Setting the travel adjustments

Set the
travel adjustments (ATVs) to the maximum (typically 140 to 150%) for both directions of throw on collective, elevator and aileron channels. This will make best use of the available resolution of the radio system. A software 'cyclic ring' limiter is built into the mixer to prevent linkage over-travel for combined aileron and elevator deflections.

Setting the collective pitch curve
Set the pitch curve to be linear running from

0% at fully down, 50% at mid stick and 100% at fully up.

Setting the trims
Centre aileron and elevator trims and sub-trims.


The manual is here: http://www.rcmodels.org/csm/cyclock1.htm


As you will experience it is very easy to setup, especially if you use the optional USB PC connector and software. I bought the Cyclock because I use a DX7 which had no 140 deg mix, you have to add an elevator to aileron mix to a 120deg swash mix, which add further latency to the transmission. I would assume that if one's TX has a 140 mix that you would not see such a vast improvement, but at least one would get the full resolution from the servos. There is a review of the Cyclock in the latest Rotorworld magazine as well.


http://www.rotorworld.co.uk/