Blade 400 for Dummies 'discussion' Thread

[LockMD]

From Sokal: LockMD is also a great source for info and im sure he did not mean any harm


You are right buddy (Sokal) no harm meant, dont know why his feathers got ruffled I was more directing it at you LOL

I just liked the work that Mike did and it was disrespectful to him to clutter it, thought we should keep it clean (for tips ONLY) and have a dual thread like this one to BS about them.

But you know YOU are still the MAN :noteworthy


Hey how are the build vids going?

[ChuckTSeeker]

You are right buddy (Sokal) no harm meant, dont know why his feathers got ruffled I was more directing it at you LOL



alls cool with me :hug: i didn't know you two were mates and as a newbie read it as it was written ;) it just looked like you were having a go at me too ;)

ok then a question on these DX6i setting for an easier learning curve, what do you think of these:

Throttle curve
0%
20%
45%
70%
100%
Pitch curve
5%
35%
65%
85%
100%


i tried them in my sim ( HeliSimRC the easy 3d heli ;) ) and they made the heli i've been flying seem really sluggish and easy, but i guess that would make it a good starting point

i've also had this given to me when i've asked the same question in another forum, but i don't understand all what it means or how to get it into my DX6i, (ok be easy on me i've never used another Tx apart from the one that came with the LamaV3 :YeaBaby: ) i've read about the expo but whats the duel rates? and what do they do?


For a softer setup try lowering the Dual Rates and adding Expo.
Something like:
AIL- 80% +20%
ELE- 80% +20%
RUD-100% +10%
Should work nicely for you.


cheers Chuck

[Wolfpackin]

Chuck,

Dual Rate limits (or increases) the overall throw of the servos. So if you are at 100% (first number) you have 100% travel on that channel. You would lower it to have decreased throw and response from the heli.

Expo can increase or decrease the sensitivity of the stick around the center point. You add positive (+) expo to make the stick less sensitive on the chosen channel. Expo is the second number in the example you posted that I gave to you.
For example: Aileron=80% +20% means you have lowered the Dual Rate to limit total throw on left/right stick inputs and you've decreased the sensitivity of the stick, around the center point, of left/right stick inputs.

The DX6i manual has all of that info but I don't have it in front of me to give you the page. Just look at the Setup Index page in the manual, it gives the pages of all functions.

On your pitch curve 5-35-65-85-100 that first position (5) is way too much negative pitch, -9.5d, and then it jumps to 35 (-3d).
I would strongly suggest a curve of 40-45-50-75-100 in normal mode. That gives you -2d at low stick and that's all you'll need for normal mode if you get caught in some wind. And you really want to get used to zero pitch at half stick.

You should watch the video "Curves 101" in Finless Bob's Helifreak Tech Room under Heli Skills and Setup. It's on the Home page here. That will help you understand.

All of these things, D/R & Expo and your curves, can be found in the TX by pressing the roller after turning on the TX and then scrolling down to the item you want.

Trust me, or better yet, trust Finless Bob. Most would consider him an expert on these heli's and I am giving you his pitch curve. He also suggests using 0-50-80-90-100 as a throttle curve but if that's too much head speed for you and your heli lifts around 3/4 stick then it's OK to lower it.

Hope that helps.

[sokal]

as for your pitch curve
its

0= -10
50= 0
100= +10

just throttle up slow and let soft start finish befor lifting up
usually mid stick untill rpm becomes constant

[ChuckTSeeker]

ok guys, thanks for that, am getting a grip on it know ;)

i have copied model 1 to model 2 for a back up of the stock setting, so this means model 2 now needs to be "Binded" to the rest of the system for it to work, but model 1 will still work as normal, correct?

now on Mod 1, i have adjusted the D/R + Expo to these settings:

AIL- 80% +20%
ELE- 80% +20%
RUD-100% +10%


ok then i hit a problem :DOH when i went to the pitch and throttle settings i can't see how to change them to: Pitch= 40-45-50-75-100 Throttle = 0-50-80-90-100 it just has:

Norm +POS 3
Stunt
Hold 50.0%

how do i get those numbers in? also the throttle setting do look fast (although i have no idea on fast or slow :P ) how would you suggest to turn them down if need be?

can i ask another noob question too please as i just want to make sure on this, as i've been looking/playing with the new controller and don't want any surprises when i first connect the Batt to the heli :YeaBaby: ok the 4 switch's on the top of the Tx are all positioned back, the Elev/D/R is on 0, the flap/gyro is on 1 and the Alt/D/R is on 1 are these all correct?

ahh nearly ready for my first attempt at hovering, do you guys think i should put a set of training gear onto the skids for the first attempts? i'm taking off,landing and hovering quiet good in HeliSimRC

again thanks for all your help i'm sure it's going to help me have less down time than if i just went in head first

cheers chuck

[Wolfpackin]

how do i get those numbers in? also the throttle setting do look fast (although i have no idea on fast or slow :P ) how would you suggest to turn them down if need be?



Select Pitch Curve.
Move the roller to highlight NORM then push the roller to select it.
Then move the roller to the different positions. Start with "L" and push the roller to select then roll it to change the value (to 40). Proceed with the other positions.

Select Throttle Curve.
Use above proceedure.
If you're worried about head speed stay with the stock settings 0-25-50-75-100.
That should work fine.

the 4 switch's on the top of the Tx are all positioned back, the Elev/D/R is on 0, the flap/gyro is on 1 and the Alt/D/R is on 1 are these all correct?


AIL, ELE, RUD D/R all have two positions for your settings. You already changed the Dual Rate and Expo on one of them. If you haven't switched them since that change they are set to your 80% +20%. If you switch them to the other position then they will be at the stock setting of 100% INH. This allows you to have two settings on Dual Rate and Expo so you can switch back and forth between them.
Go into the Dual Rate & Expo Menu and switch the toggle, you will see what I mean as you can see them change between your new settings and the stock one's.

You also have two gyro gain settings. If you haven't changed them they will be around 65% and 67%. Some people like to have a high and low gain setting for different flying styles. I have one set at 75% (with a digital tail servo) for regular flying and one at 25% which is rate mode. I use rate mode for tail setup. You can also see which gain % is at what switch location by going into the menu to Gyro and flicking the switch, the arrow will point to the gain you're on.

The only really important switch, besides wanting to be on the new D/R & Expo, is the flight mode toggle. MAKE SURE you are NOT in STUNT when powering up. But I think the TX will beep at you if you are in Stunt when turning on the TX. You probably won't be switching to stunt in the beginning unless you have nads of steel. Normal is "0", Stunt/Idle up is "1"


do you guys think i should put a set of training gear onto the skids for the first attempts? i'm taking off,landing and hovering quiet good in HeliSimRC


I would. They saved me some grief early on.

[Wolfpackin]

There is also a Throttle Hold switch.
You want Throttle Hold off, "0" when powering up.
After power up, and after the gyro initializes (2 beeps) you should switch it on "1" if you are going to move the heli or TX in case you bump the left stick and spin up the heli while it's in your hands.
Then when you're ready to fly switch it off "0".

BTW, all of this stuff is in the manual and the TX programming is in the DX6i manual.
You really should become well aquainted with at least the B400 manual before flying.
I'd hate to hear that you got hurt or crashed on the first attempt.

JMHO

[ChuckTSeeker]

thanks Wolf, i,ve got it now and yes i am reading all the manual and being very patient with myself about flying this bird, i just didn't understand all the manual and it's terms, it's not the easiest to follow when you have never owned a Digi Tx like this and i just wanted reassurance i was doing the right things, i have downloaded all of the great 101 vids, but haven't watched them all yet, i just watched the curves one, and now have a much better understanding of them

so after i turn the Tx on should i put the thr/hold switch on before i plug the batt in? and is the throttle cut switch for when i crash :YeaBaby:

cheers chuck

PS i'm nearly 52, so i won't be doing anything silly, i'll take my time, ask lots of questions :YeaBaby: and with a bit of luck have this bird hovering soon

[Wolfpackin]

so after i turn the Tx on should i put the thr/hold switch on before i plug the batt in? and is the throttle cut switch for when i crash http://www.helifreak.com/images/smilies/nodding%20grin.gif



Do not put throttle hold on until after powering up and after you get the two beeps.

Throttle hold is for just before you crash. It took me four crashes before I got that one down. There's so much to think about while flying and avoiding a crash that it's hard to think about it.
A good tip is to start using throttle hold just as you touch down for a landing. That will train your muscle memory and fingers to be ready in a panic situation.

I understand and remember what you are going through with this. The B400 is my first CP machine and first computer TX. I just wanted to make that manual disclaimer for your sake and for my own peace of mind.

And make sure the left stick is all the way down before plugging in the battery...always.

[Kindling Maker]

I always, even with the throttle hold enguaged, cover the left stick with my thumb and physicaly hold it all the way down. Jusst relax and enjoy flying, and repairing. Just remember you are probably going to crash. It is no biggie everyone does, it will seem like you spend more time fixing than flying, but dont get discouraged and keep with it. I tis fun learning, and flying.

[Tande]

Hey Guys---How does changing the aile or elev % in the swash/mix menu differ from changing it in the dual rate/expo menu ?---Do they not both dictate servo travel ?---Is one a % of the other ?---I'm assuming at least one is a % of total servo travel set in the travel/adjust menu---:arggg:

[skigolfmike]

In the CCPM mix you are changing how the servos work together. In the ATV you are changing how much throw each individual servo has. You are correct that Change the ELE and AIL rate would have the same effect as change ELE or AIL in the swash mix. However, I would use the CCPM mixing to set the max throws I want and use dual rate expo to setup control feel.

[ChuckTSeeker]

ok all the setting loaded into the DX6i, heli checked as per the manual, time for my first spool up, check stick positions,Tx on, connect battery, hear beeps, turn throttle hold on, get comfy and relaxed, deep breath and increase throttle stick WOOOOOOO this things spinning, "Fast" and the tails moving CW, counter with a little right stick movement, WOW, very sensitive, the tail moves quickly back, a little more throttle and she becomes light on the skids and seems at this point to want to flip onto its left side, CUT THROTTLE hit throttle hold fewwwww, rest after first experience with this heli :smokin:

next spool up, this time as it becomes a little light and trys to tip left i put a little right into it, which steadies it a fraction, but know its going to go over to the right, CUT THROTTLE, hit throttle hold, fewwww it's still in one piece :YeaBaby:

now can i ask this, the "tipping over" i'm feeling, is this just because i'm in the heli's own wash? and if when i'm ready to take the next step and lift off the ground, if i give it a little more throttle just before the tipping over sensation will the heli lift straight up? will it still have a tendency to want to tip to the left, needing a little right input as it lifts?

sure was an awesome feeling and like many have said before a little intimidating the first time you hear/feel it :shock:

now the sticks seemed still to be a little sensitive so if i take the expo out to 30% from the 20% from what i now understand this will make them a little softer again? also the gyro is set on 64% can this be changed to stop that quick spin round when i spool it up, or is that just natural? i read that one of the guys set ups said 68% was what he had on his leaner's settings?

also i noticed the rudder only has 10% expo could this be increased to tame it down as it was quiet sensitive

gee sorry for all the questions guys, i really appreciate your time, but at least you guys will have the pleasure of knowing you got another newbie into the air and who knows one day i too might be able to help another newb into the air, passing on the info i have learned from this site :thumbup:

cheers chuck

[Kindling Maker]

That is what this place is for, there are no stupid questions, just unasked questions.

[skigolfmike]

Let me see if I can help you out a little.

First of all, if this is your first heli, check out Radd's School of Rotary Flight (http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-index.html)

One thing about a clockwise main rotor heli is it will want to move left at lift off. It takes a little right aileron and right rudder to get it to come off straight.

More expo will make the heli feel softer around stick center. You can change the rate to 80% to limit the throw when you are learning too. I wouldn't mes with the gyro for now. Turning up the gain might cause a tail wag, which would be annoying if you are learning.

Also, I suggest before your next flight, you check the head stiffness. Spread the blades out, grab one of the blade grips and lift it up a little. It needs to flex some. If it is really stiff the heli will be very twitchy and impossible to fly. You can check this by taking it apart and re-assembling. You will need ball link pliers and blue Locktite for the feathering shaft bolts. (See lockMD's Feather Shaft Replacement Tip (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=65455)) You also should check to see if the swash is level at mid-stick. (Free swash tool (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=65756))

Take it easy and enjoy!

[Wolfpackin]

Chuck (My new best, internet, friend),

It is normal for the heli to want to take off to the left due to torque and the thrust of the tail rotors.
My guess is that you really are not at lift off rpm's and that's why your getting that tip over. Your swashplate may not be level either.
That's why I recommended training gear. If your setup is out of whack from the factory they'll save you.
But you definately want to input right cyclic just as you lift off. If you add it too soon with low rpm's the heli will try to tip over. It's a feel you'll get over time. Scary, huh?

It's also normal for the tail to yaw as rpm's increase especially if you are not throttling up smoothly. Try to get used to holding it in place. As you reach lift off it should settle down.
If not you may need to work on tail setup. In the beginning try to hold it steady then as you progress try rudder trim and ultinately you will adjust it mechanically if it's off.
I think training gear is a big plus until you know for sure that the setup is good and you get more comfortable.

Good luck, keep asking questions.

[Twmaster]

I'll let Chuck take a break and pick up with the retard of the day questions. :lol:

Just to make sure I am reading this correctly the term 'right cyclic' refers to what us plank drivers would call 'right aileron'??

Left stick: L-R = rudder (tail) F-R = throttle/collective

Right stick: (cyclic) L-R and F-R

Am I reading this correctly?

Also, I bookmarked and read RADDs. Darn his approach makes a bucket load of sense. I'll be going that route.

Thanks

[Wolfpackin]

"Right Aileron" is correct as well.

It probably would have been more clear if I said that.

Anyway, the left stick is sometimes referred to as the collective stick and the right stick as the cyclic stick.

[Twmaster]

"Right Aileron" is correct as well.

It probably would have been more clear if I said that.

Anyway, the left stick is sometimes referred to as the collective stick and the right stick as the cyclic stick.

Thanks!

[LockMD]

alls cool with me :hug: i didn't know you two were mates and as a newbie read it as it was written ;) it just looked like you were having a go at me too ;)



Looking at it from you point of view, I guess I did come across that way. :hug:

I know you are new and learning (aren't we all, thats why we are here) but if you havent tried it you might have a go at HIGHER head speeds little more intimadating but ALOT more stabe. My throtle curve is 0-40-70-85-100

[Tande]

In the CCPM mix you are changing how the servos work together. In the ATV you are changing how much throw each individual servo has. You are correct that Change the ELE and AIL rate would have the same effect as change ELE or AIL in the swash mix. However, I would use the CCPM mixing to set the max throws I want and use dual rate expo to setup control feel. Thanks Mike!---

[sokal]

if you all really wana get tecnical

left stick up/down = heli up/heli crash
left sttick Right/Left = death slin left/right

right stick up/down = dive stick
right stick right/left = death spiral L/R

hahahahahhaha im just playin

acual helicopter terms

left up/down collective/Thrust (Thro)
left L/R pedles/Nose L/R (RUDD)

right sticks (CYCLIC)

L/R Roll (AILE)
U/D Pitch (ELEV)

a helicopter does not have Ailerons and Elevators and Rudders

[ChuckTSeeker]

well guys the winds been blowing its head off so haven't been able to get out for more practise, that is till this morning :YeaBaby:

with the throttle curve upped a little to 30-55-80-100 not quiet what you guys recommended but slowly does it i reckon :) and the Gyro turned up to 68% i headed out the back and proceeded to set the heli up

wow what a difference just those small adjustments made, as you guys said the head speed was a lot quicker, the tail held real well and the heli didn't really move around much at all

the throttle was just over the half way mark when the heli started to get light on the skids but it was a lot more stable this time and was easy to keep in the square and on the ground, upright

winds blown up again so i doubt i'll get another shot today :( but i reckon i'm not that far away from putting the training gear on and sliding around

i'm "NOT" going to do it ;) but i must say with all my practise on the sim, (3 months) i really feel like i'm ready to lift this baby off the ground, since getting the DX6i to use on the sim instead of the 4ch Lama Tx, it feels a lot better, as i'm getting used to the control i'll be using heaps soon

again guys thanks for all ya help, and i'm sure i'll have plenty more questions for ya's as we progress through this great learning curve, ahhh don't ya just love it :happyd

cheers chuck

[Twmaster]

Hehe.

RADD would be standing over your shoulder saying "good job soldier!!"

:D

[ChuckTSeeker]

Hehe.

RADD would be standing over your shoulder saying "good job soldier!!"

:D


:cheers :YeaBaby: