Raptor 50 Titan push pull (Added question about idle noise)

[Socal500]

I just got a used 50 Titan and have reworked the linkage and set the head up correctly. I noticed that on the collective, the original owner did not have the push pull setup. Seeing as this is one of the upgrades that makes the Titan a Titan, I was wondering how important this is. Should I, and can I purchase the push pull hardware?

[LAMAR COOLEY]

Socal500
" Can I ?"
Yes, you can purchase the push-pull linkage for the 50.
"Ron's Heliproz South" and "Heliproz" come to mind.
"Should I ?" Well, that would be a personal decision.
My Raptor 90 doesn't have push-pull on collective nor does my Raptor 50 Titan.
Because I chose to mount the gyro servo up front on the 50. the push-pull bay was not available. Hope this is of some small help.
Regards

[Socal500]

Yes that helps. So its not completely necessary but I may do it anyway.

What total cyclic range should I be shooting for on this kasama head? 18 degrees total 9 and 9 for example or larger.

[LAMAR COOLEY]

Socal500
I would recommend + 10 top, 0 at center and -10 at bottom.
Also, you might be interested in "raptortechnique". Mr. Mike Prewitt has an excellent
site about raptors. Try it, you'll like it.
Looks like you edited out your questions about engine noise.
Did you resolve the problem ?
Regards:cheers

[Socal500]

Yes I edited it for now. I took the engine out and the little C retaining clip that holds the starter shaft in the clutch bell fell out as I lowered the engine out. I dont know why but I put another back in place. I guess it could have been getting caught on the edge of the slits in the clutch and against the inside of the clutch bell. I wont know until I fire it up again.

Im referring to cyclic, not pitch. My pitch is currently +/- 10.

[Socal500]

Well I got the noise cleared up. I noticed some blade flutter on rolls and during transition. Decided to tear the head down and found a bent feathering shaft. Original owner says no crashes, no hard landings, tips or autos. So what would make this shaft bend?

[BarracudaHockey]

Don't bother with the P/P on the collective. The design sucks and results in some excessively low end points on the collective servo. I got rid of it on one and never installed it on another. I also got rid of it on a friends machine that was getting blade flutter (woof) and it went away with a standard v2 collective setup. Also the Raptor doesn't need much help being tail heavy so I can't see putting the tail servo back there too.

[archiebald]

I put the Titan P/P on my Raptor 50 #1. I can't honestly say if it improves flying, but it certainly puts less asymmetrical force on the servo output shaft.

I managed to get mine set up with reasonable end point values - I can't remember the figures offhand (posting from work). Although I'd agree that it is not a must have, I am very happy with the installation.

As regards the rudder servo, I run mine on the boom on Raptor #1 anyhow, so fitting the P/P collective was not an issue. BTW, I've run it there for 2 years through 4 crashes and have never had a failed servo, despite all the hype about oil and potential crash damage to the servo

I just finished putting together Raptor 2 and test flew it last week with the tail servo in the original forward position. and I had a chance to make a direct comparison in flying them back to back.

Both Raptors are using GY-401's with S-9254's running off 4.8 volts and identical tail rotors. Gyro gain is set idential on both, and the servo horns are the same length. After testing hovering pirouettes at 1800rpm on both helis, the boom mounted Raptor 1 is crisp and precise. The forward mounted Raptor 2 is very mushy - horrible.

I couldn't remember Raptor #1 being so bad, but now I've got used to the tail mounted (Quick UK) setup, I found the original setup terrible. Raptor #2 is now waiting for a boom mounting kit.

[Socal500]

Ok now I have a question about blades. Again I purchased this used and Im finding stuff I dont like and feel this was not a completely straight deal. The seller shook one of the blades and pointed out a rattle near the root of the blade and stated it was a loose weight. He said the I could probably drill a hole and fill it with silicone to brace the weight again. Today, after finding the bent feathering shaft, I decided to really go over this heli good. On that blade I found a silicone plugged hole near the root. I removed the silicon to see what was going on and out comes about 15 or so shots for a buckshot shell. Is this what they use to balance these blades?

[vandelescrow]

Grat info archiebald, It's nice when someone can post a comparison.

I have also run tail mounted servo for years with out a problem but do not have another comperable bird to compare setups.

[BarracudaHockey]

I built one for someone and he wanted the tail mounted servo, I've flown them both quite a bit and can't tell the difference.

About the blades, that wouldn't surprise me if they used shot to balance the blades but it should be glued in. I'd personally chuck those blades. With hard dampening (infinivation or cx) and VERY aggressive flying its POSSIBLE (not likely) to bend that shaft in flight. More than likely it was a botched auto.

[Socal500]

Well I put on a new set of blades and a new feathering shaft. I have the Kasama head with Infinivation dampeners. I have not had a chance to test yet but Im hoping the horrible flutter that I see when doing aileron flips or rolls goes away.

I have read of others experiencing this and it was suggested that the servos were not up to the task but I would think the 9252s would be fine. I have reworked the head and everything looks good mechanically. There is absolutely no slop in the head so Im hoping it was the blades and/or feathering shaft. If not, what should I look at next?

[vandelescrow]

I may be wrong but I thought they use bronze powder to balance the blades from the factory. I wouldnt risk using those blades you got with the heli. The info the seller gave you would cause the blades to be out of ballance and aparently the seller either didn't know what he was talking about or was just looking to unload the heli. If it is the latter, sorry that you ran into a disreputable person in this hobby. So far I've only ran into great helpfull people and companies.

I was in the military over seas and when I returned to America, the first thing I noticed was, where is the customer service? Now a days, most companies make you feal like they are the customer:arggg: and you are there to provide them with a service:thumbdown:. With companies I've dealt with for R/C helis, there customer service is :clappp

Sorry I got off subject for a bit.

[Socal500]

I have the kasama head setup as dead on as one could expect. My collective travel is +/- 13. My cyclic is +/-8. I see no binding yet at + collective I see interaction on elevator when inputting aileron. I checked this by putting my pitch guage on one main rotor blades. I have the blades out to the side, so 90 degrees to the heli frame. To rule out me inputting any interaction through the sticks, I set my Expo on elevator to 100% so it would take quite a bit of input to show up.

I add a few degrees of plus collective so the blades go from zero to about +5. Now I input only aileron. Near center stick no interaction but once I get to 1/2 or more on aileron I see a definite movement of the blade, about 1 degree negative, which with the blades out exactly 90 degrees to the side they should not react to this input. If I go neutral or negative pitch and do the same I get no interaction.


Any thoughts ?

[vandelescrow]

Sorry i do not have a Kasama head so I have to ask a question. Does it have a phasing ring? if so you may want to adjust it to get the interaction out of the aeleron and elevator.

Second thought is, do you have any mixes programed in your transmitter?

[Socal500]

No mixes and the phase it set. Its only on positive pitch so I would think phasing would do it on either.