Autorotations

[zagiman]

I got tired of doing figure 8s in both directions so I decided to try my hand at autorotations. It was a blast. Although I crashed a lot I did manage to land in the yellow 2 times without breakage/crash. I also managed to land in other areas without breakage/crash either. Mostly I crashed. I now know how it is done but, it's harder than it looks but, satisfying when you do it successfully.

[Funflyer]

What model are you using for auto's?

[zagiman]

T-Rex 450SE 3D.

[helical]

Larger model will be easier.

[zagiman]

Larger model will be easier.

I realize that but, I am not flying a larger model. I am flying a 450 and want to practice on the model I am flying.

[Funflyer]

I hope you tweaked the setting for your Phoenix 450 because it doesn't auto anything like the real thing. Well, I've never actually done an auto but I can tell that the Phoenix 450 is way too easy. I've semi-auto'd my real 450 from about 15ft in strong winds and it is no picnic. Kind of like a controlled crash, even if you're anticipating the motor stop.

On my Phoenix 450 I made it heavier and reduced the blade inertia way down and I still don't think it's right, but it's better.

Don't get me wrong, it is essential that you practice auto's and you're preparing yourself for when you are forced into a bad situation. I just wanted to make sure you didn't get good at the Phoenix auto's and then crash your real heli expecting it to react the same way. Good Luck with the practice!

[zagiman]

I wouldn't expect the real thing to be exactly like the sim. I did decrease the inertia on the blades as HFG suggested. I still crash more than I survive. I have no real world experience to compare the sim to when it comes to autos so I am not sure how close to the real thing I have it. If, the 450 pretty much drops like a rock, maybe I need to add more weight and lower the inertia more.

Can anyone post what settings they have for the 450 to make it more acurate for autos?

[Funflyer]

Well, remember that I have never fully auto'd a 450, but I have mine set at 2.7lbs and 0.03 blade inertia. You shouldn't have any time to fly the heli to a specific spot, just drop it where it lands. That's the best info I can give you.

[Funflyer]

Check out Funky's 450 auto's on youtube for a good reference. My setup gets pretty close I think, but not quite 100%.

zb2DixOZu1o

[zagiman]

Okay, I made some changes.

For those of you that have done autos in real life I made the following changes:

Weight: 2.5kg
Blade Inertia: 0.04

Can you either give what you have or try the above and let me know how close it is?


Also, I just played with weight (changed it to 2kg first) and it seemed to hover more than when I was doing autos yesterday as all of a sudden I could auto like I could beat all the pros out there. I then switched it back to 1kg and it got worse. It was like as long as the settings weren't touched (other than inertia) being set to 0.05. :confused:

[x RayoVac x]

I went in to tweak what you guys recommended. Weight 2.7lbs and Blade Inertia at 0.03. Are there any other tweaks you guys have made to the 450 in Phoenix?

Also I noticed that the 450SE 3D the Elevator and Aileron Expo are both at -25%. Do you guys leave it like that or put it to Zero? I get confused as to whether these Expo settings in Phoenix are there to make the particular helicopter more realistic or not? I have heard folks say do the expo in your TX not in the Sim. A bit confused as to whether I should leave the expo settings alone in Phoenix or Zero them out.

Thanks,

Rayo

[zagiman]

I went in to tweak what you guys recommended. Weight 2.7lbs and Blade Inertia at 0.03. Are there any other tweaks you guys have made to the 450 in Phoenix?

Also I noticed that the 450SE 3D the Elevator and Aileron Expo are both at -25%. Do you guys leave it like that or put it to Zero? I get confused as to whether these Expo settings in Phoenix are there to make the particular helicopter more realistic or not? I have heard folks say do the expo in your TX not in the Sim. A bit confused as to whether I should leave the expo settings alone in Phoenix or Zero them out.

Thanks,

Rayo

Hmm...I didn't notice that. Not exactly sure what negative expo would do.

[x RayoVac x]

It should make it more sensitive. But again, I am not sure if that was intentional on Phoenix's part to affect the feel of the bird or not.

[Funflyer]

I don't think I changed anything else. Those two settings seemed to get it pretty close for auto's but like I said I don't think it's exactly right. We need someone who does 450 auto's in real life to tweak it a little more for us.

I also didn't notice the expo...

[x RayoVac x]

Unrelated to Autos... I am hoping to just get a consensus on the changes needed to make a 450 feel as "real" as possible. I have been flying Phoenix for a couple of months now. But have yet to fly a real heli. I just got my 450 SE V2, but still have a lot of parts to gather up and a lot more learning to do before I try to put it in the air.

[cheech91060]

just my opinion, but i wouldn't get hung up on tweaking settings because it will only be "real" compared to someone else's setup. there's a lot of things (headspeed, throttle/pitch curves, etc) that can vary how your 450 will fly compared to someone else's.

[helical]

just my opinion, but i wouldn't get hung up on tweaking settings because it will only be "real" compared to someone else's setup. there's a lot of things (headspeed, throttle/pitch curves, etc) that can vary how your 450 will fly compared to someone else's.

Yep, developing muscle memory is more important.

[bilbo]

Well, remember that I have never fully auto'd a 450, but I have mine set at 2.7lbs and 0.03 blade inertia. You shouldn't have any time to fly the heli to a specific spot, just drop it where it lands. That's the best info I can give you.

2.7 lbs is WAY too heavy for a 450. My Trex 450 V2 with an Airthunder 2200 Mah battery weighs under 800 g, or 1.7 lbs, and that's on the heavy side for a Trex. Setting the weight that high in the sim might make the heli descend at a more realistic angle during an auto, but it makes it behave pretty unrealistically in most other ways. I found that if I just set the blade inertia for the Trex 450 to about 0.03 with the heli weight at about 820 g, the heli has a realistic amount of hang time. The sim is still unrealistic during the descent because it allows me to hold only -2 degrees collective during the descent to maintain good head speed, which yields a very shallow glide angle. In real life I have to hold more like -5 or -6 collective to maintain a good head speed, which yields a much steeper descent angle. I find I can get a similar feeling in the sim by just using -6 or -7 degrees collective during the descent.

In summary, I'd say leave the heli's weight set at a realistic setting, decrease blade inertia to 0.03, and use -7 negative collective during the auto, and you'll get a reasonable approximation of what it feels like to auto a Trex 450. It's not perfect, but it was close enough that after learning on the sim I was able to auto my Trex 450 for real without damaging anything.

[zagiman]

just my opinion, but i wouldn't get hung up on tweaking settings because it will only be "real" compared to someone else's setup. there's a lot of things (headspeed, throttle/pitch curves, etc) that can vary how your 450 will fly compared to someone else's.

I'm not trying to get it exactly real but, I don't want it to be complete fantasy either. When I was playing around with it with the default settings, it would just hang there and I could bring it down almost as if I had power. Since, I haven't done autos in real life I won't know what is close to reality unless it is obvious. Oh and at least the settings will be based on a real 450 characteristics.

[HFG]

I changed the blade Interia to 0.05 and it autos dang near close.

[zagiman]

I changed the blade Interia to 0.05 and it autos dang near close.

That's all you changed? You left the weight at 1kg?

Problem is I think I may have found a bug. I put it at 0.05 like you said in another thread and it was fine. I added weight to see how that would change things. When I put the weight back it would almost float and I could land everytime without crashing. I'll delete the copy and start over from the original and see if that reverts back to the way it was.

[HFG]

Well thats all i changed with regard to autos, the weight wasnt changed from stock.

[zagiman]

Odd. Mine now hovers with ease with those settings. I no longer crash. I must be a pro now. ;) Before, I crashed more than I survived. Now, I survive 99.9% of the time. Thinking I should uninstall and then reinstall it.

[zagiman]

I tried a reinstall. To get back to the way it was (or at least close to it) the first time I installed I had to set the weight to 1.5kg and the blade ineria to 0.03. It still kind of floats more than I would think.

[spdntckt]

question for you guys - i find that autos in Phoenix to be much harder than the real thing.. i have been practicing on the synergy and t-600 models.. are you finding that?