View Full Version : lipo's on starter?
crane guy
03-25-2008, 08:16 PM
So I was watching bob's break in video on the 600n and seen that he had what looked like lipo's attached to his starter to make it a cordless starter, I don't seem to see any for sale anywere like this, were can I get one ? Or how do I build one ?
heliadict1212
03-25-2008, 10:14 PM
I noticed that also and did some research...
From what I gathered just solder a set of deans to the starter cable and use a 3-4 cell lipo with high mah and C rating. After doing the research I found that using a cordless drill was the best option for me and works great so I never did it
crane guy
03-25-2008, 10:29 PM
cordless drill, yip have one of those, as well as a starter from previous planks. Will have to give the drill a try less $$ to get going but would still like to use the starter with lipo's set up, can anyone give mah and c suggestions ?
sbmon
03-25-2008, 10:41 PM
Minimum lipo for small 50 size starter I would say 3s 2100 20c. That being said I have been using a 3s 2000 18c without issue for 8 months. Key thing is don't stall the starter if it's hydro locked don't use the starter to try and clear it. I put a watt meter on my starter with the lipo and the starter stalled right around 20 amps.
shawn
Moreflying
03-25-2008, 11:33 PM
Make sure if you use a cordless drill it's turning the right way before trying to start. With the drill in your hand it should be turning counter-clockwise...If it's a drill with a clutch I think you can set it down to help prevent damage from hydrolock.
crane guy
03-26-2008, 01:45 AM
Minimum lipo for small 50 size starter I would say 3s 2100 20c. That being said I have been using a 3s 2000 18c without issue for 8 months. Key thing is don't stall the starter if it's hydro locked don't use the starter to try and clear it. I put a watt meter on my starter with the lipo and the starter stalled right around 20 amps.
shawn
do you have pic's of that setup?
crane guy
03-26-2008, 01:49 AM
not to sound daft but what exactly is hydro lock ?
Moreflying
03-26-2008, 02:53 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolock
:thumbup:
aussiemick
03-26-2008, 08:28 AM
I have a 3S 2100 16C LiPo on my century MiniMax starter. So far according to my eagletree 28 amps max, that is about the 13C mark but it was with a stalled starter. If the engine wont turn then I stop trying to crank it over with the starter and fix the problem. On a normal start it will only pull 12 amps. I get my 15 or so starts from it during a days flying and only use about 500mah.
Mick
gmohr
03-26-2008, 12:14 PM
Wayne Brown runs a lipo on his starter. If I remember correctly it is a 4 or 5S Evo.
I am sure he will chime in if he sees this.
frogbmth
03-26-2008, 02:10 PM
A word of warning here - some starters draw way more amps and a hydrolock can turn a 3s lipo powered starter into a hand grenade.
I run a dynatron (figure I wont have to go get another starter if I later get a .90) and this draws 80-100A on hydrolock. Such starter needs a 4s or preferrably 5s lipo. If you have one great, but its an expensive option if not. I run2x 7 cell NiMh sticks and it works great. I never have to worry bout it exploding in my hand, on top of my heli :)
Dont let the talk of lipo packs make you think you need one on a starter. You are throwing money away unless you have a tired old one laying around.
Andy
sbmon
03-26-2008, 02:40 PM
And with a setup like that you can start your car if the starter goes bad too. Seriously though a 3s lipo is fine so long as once you stall it you stop immediatly and remedy the situation without using the starter. I have the small hobbico starter with a lipo jammed in the case where the original battery was.
crane guy
03-26-2008, 02:41 PM
Thanks frogbmth that is another great option
WayneBrown
03-26-2008, 03:03 PM
This is the proper way to make a mega-starter, guaranteed to start anything or break the connecting rod. :)
5S 3700 Evo 20 ( was Wyed with another as 10S pair, other puffed)
Century start wand with one-way (retapped to 1/4-28 for Dynatron)
MinAir starter battery holder.
This sucker goes WEEKS between charges, and when at the field it becomes the default community starter....
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43327&d=1206557781
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43328&d=1206557781
3S 2100's are too small to use regularly, You will puff or ignite under the loads imposed by the starter. Find a buddy flying Electrics and ask to bum an old pack, or stay NiCd or Pb.
Finless
03-26-2008, 03:56 PM
BE CAREFUL going over 3S on a starter. Make sure the starter is rated for 5S voltage!!!! Trust me if you buy a simple 12V starter and try running it with a 5S pack you will smoke the windings or worse!
Wayne's dynatron is rated up to 24volts. Thats the key!
The starter you saw in my video was a low end Sullivan rated for 12V ONLY. On this one you can go up to about 16V but it will not handle a 5S lipo! Ask me how I know! I didnt do it but I saw someone burn up a starter trying to run it on 24V. Everything smoked including the Deans connector!
Oh and for a 50 sized heli a 3S 3300ma 25C pack was used with this Sullivan and this starter has no problem starting the heli and doesnt need a charge for WEEKS. In my opinion you do not need a MONSTER starter for a 50 heli.
On a hydro-lock it wont explode as long as you STOP trying to start it and fix the hydro-lock... DO not keep trying to start a hydrolocked motor even if you are not trying to use lipos to drive the starter!
Anyway thats my answer,
Bob
Finless
03-26-2008, 03:59 PM
BTW for you new guys......
Long before lipo's most of us nitro guys had cordless starters. We used 2 RC car sub-C nicad packs in series. I used two 6 cell RC car packs but some people I know ran 7 cell for starting 90's. They sell mounting kits for starters to mount the nicad packs (You can see this on Wayne's starter). These packs can be had for pretty cheep so if you want cordless and dont want to spend bucks on a lipo solution, just use the tried and true Nicad pack solution.
Bob
crane guy
03-26-2008, 04:00 PM
This is the proper way to make a mega-starter, guaranteed to start anything or break the connecting rod. :)
5S 3700 Evo 20 ( was Wyed with another as 10S pair, other puffed)
Century start wand with one-way (retapped to 1/4-28 for Dynatron)
MinAir starter battery holder.
This sucker goes WEEKS between charges, and when at the field it becomes the default community starter....
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43327&d=1206557781
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43328&d=1206557781
3S 2100's are too small to use regularly, You will puff or ignite under the loads imposed by the starter. Find a buddy flying Electrics and ask to bum an old pack, or stay NiCd or Pb.
Ok so the best I can tell here is
starter $75
lipo $200-250
wand $25
thats one spendy starter unless you know some one that is gettin rid of one of those lipos, anyone gettin rid of one of those lipos?
Finless
03-26-2008, 04:02 PM
We posted on top of each other. Read my post just above yours! Way cheaper is to use Sub-C RC car nicad packs... People used this for a cordless starter for years before lipo's came out!
I will digt up a old picture of mine when I get home.
Bob
crane guy
03-26-2008, 04:12 PM
Thanks for ringing in on this finless, thank god for this forum. The guys at my LHS are not very good heli guys, they have one guy that does electrics and doesn't like nitros very muchso he is always trying the the electric sell every time, i'm surprised there was even a nitro bird there, so this is pretty much my only source of info.
Thanks again
frogbmth
03-26-2008, 04:18 PM
My 600N is my first nitro heli and I spent ages settling on my starter choice. I first used a cordless drill but after getting advice from my club, moved to a real starter.
There are a lot of cheap starters out there, but prepare to buy another starter if you get a bigger heli later. For me the dynatron was way more expensive than I had budgeted but I am glad I bought it, its overkill for the 600N but I figured that I would probably end up with one later as my thirst for a bigger heli takes hold.
Do consider where your journey might take you before buying a cheaper starter that you will have to replace further down the road. A good .90 capable starter will serve you well.
As Bob says, the sticks from RC cars are ideal, mine are Tornado 3700mah packs. They work great, last ages and are very cheap to buy.
Andy
I have some older trex packs i was about to replace when i saw this thread. They charge and discharge fine , But they have just lost their edge a little bit. I was going to give em away to a newbie whos hovering but i am sick of lugging the lead acid batt around. So would an older non-puffed 3s 2170mah 25c be up to the job for a 50 size heli as long as i dont hydro lock? I think finless stated a 3300mah but i dont have one and i only really fly 3 or 4 tanks per outing.
Thanks
Mike_117
03-26-2008, 04:48 PM
I just put an old 2170 11.1V on my starter and it works ok..not much torque but as much as my 12V lead. and gets it started most days.
Thought about running 2 in series for (22.2V).. not sure now after Bob's post about frying the starter.
WayneBrown
03-26-2008, 04:54 PM
I have some older trex packs i was about to replace when i saw this thread. They charge and discharge fine , But they have just lost their edge a little bit. I was going to give em away to a newbie whos hovering but i am sick of lugging the lead acid batt around. So would an older non-puffed 3s 2170mah 25c be up to the job for a 50 size heli as long as i dont hydro lock? I think finless stated a 3300mah but i dont have one and i only really fly 3 or 4 tanks per outing.
Thanks
If your starter is only rated for 12v, then make parallel cable and tie two 3S packs together, for a 3S2P with a larger mAh rating..
The way I see it, if you are showing up with about $2k worth of heli, radio, and parts and your starter doesn't work, you may have well stayed home. Buy quality ONCE and never, ever worry about it again.
When I was using the hobbico starters, I'd buy one a year.. Do the math, three $25 starters just bought the Dynatron and the holder.
I got the battery from a E buddy who puffed one of a pair, and was going to toss them both. You may get lucky too, just ask and be patient.
I would NOT buy a lipo pack specifically for a starter, especially when you can get two 12v 7A gel cells for $30 that will last twice as long..
Oh yeah, Bob; shaddup!! :):):):):):):) damn know it all.. LOL
aussiemick
03-26-2008, 05:41 PM
My Lipo was from my Trex450 when it was still running 3S, since going to 4S this battery has been sitting around gathering dust.
Mick
Street Flyer
03-27-2008, 12:45 AM
This is the proper way to make a mega-starter, guaranteed to start anything or break the connecting rod. :)
5S 3700 Evo 20 ( was Wyed with another as 10S pair, other puffed)
Century start wand with one-way (retapped to 1/4-28 for Dynatron)
MinAir starter battery holder.
This sucker goes WEEKS between charges, and when at the field it becomes the default community starter....
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43327&d=1206557781
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43328&d=1206557781
3S 2100's are too small to use regularly, You will puff or ignite under the loads imposed by the starter. Find a buddy flying Electrics and ask to bum an old pack, or stay NiCd or Pb.
Where did you buy that battery holder?