15+ degrees of throw on cyclic? WTF? (warning, contains some rambling)

[istandalone]

ok so one thing i've been complaining about all along with my 550 is how darn squirrely it is. it's less stable and way more responsive and tippy then my 450. i chalked this up to having fast servos on the cyclic. not stupid fast, but something like .13 seconds at 60 degrees on 4.8v, and i run them on 6 so even faster then that. likely too fast for my skill level, but oh well, i'm not buying new ones lol. it's too windy here to fly today, so i thought i'd fart around and re-do my head setup from scratch. why? it's fun. so for the heck of it i thought i'd throw my pitch gauge on my paddles and test my cyclic pitch range. i'd never done this before, thinking that it's one adjustment that i'd not notice due to my low skill level (as previously mentioned). well, assuming i'm measuring correctly, i'm getting more then 15 degrees of cyclic throw! maybe that's why it's a squirrel? my pitch gauge only goes to 15deg, so it's actually more then that. ok, lets make sure i'm doing this correct. blades unfolded and paralled with the boom, flybar perpendicular to the blades. have my tx on idle1 center stick for zero pitch. install pitch gauge on paddle and give cyclic full throw one way and then the other, measureing the reading on both ends. is that correct?
i'm assuming now that, that is indeed the way to measure such a thing. now my next question, what is a good number to shoot for? 6 deg? 8 deg? and more importantly, how do i adjust this down? with my swash mixes? they are at 50% as of now. this may sound like a stupid question too, but do i adjust all three percentages, or just ele and ail? btw this is with a 7c fasst if it matters. and lastly, will i need to redo all my pitch curves after adjusting the cyclic throw?

thanks so much for reading my rant, and answering any question you feel you can.

[WayneBrown]

You did it right.
You will NOT have to rework your curves unless your total pitch is higher than you want. (I assume pitch is fine)
Reduce the values for Ail and Ele to what 'feels' good to you.
If you think it's too squirrely, half whatever pitch reading you have now, and adjust AIL and ELE back up to suit you.

[mjr_larkin]

Also make sure if you didn't already that the flybar is parallel with the ground of course and that the pitch gauge is perpendicular to to the blade and of course parallel to the fly bar. What you want to make sure is that it's 0 deg at center stick and even pos/neg at the ends. If that is the case then yeah, just decrease the pitch % on your tx and it will limit the end points of the collective. For my squirrly gaui 200 I have my AIL/ELE set to 33% and pitch at 50% which gives me about -/+ 12 degrees and a really responsive bird. Also keep in mind you can "tame" the feel of the bird by adding positive EXP to AIL and ELE which will make the cyclick stick effectively less sensative around the center positions. not sure if dx6 has that feature though.

[Happy|Harry]

you test the cyclic pitch on the blades not the paddles ;)

[mjdee14]

you test the cyclic pitch on the blades not the paddles ;)

OK....explain...how do you check the cyclic? On the blade is blade pitch?

I have never done this, but now you have my curiosity...

Is there an article or website to check?

************** GOOGLE FINDINGS ************
here is a post from another heli site Flying Giants.....

Mavrick- just use a standard pitch gauge on the main blades as you would to check the collective pitch.

-Center your throttle/pitch stick and make sure you are at zero degrees.
-Rotate the rotor head so that the blades are either aligned with the tail boom or at 90 degrees to it. (doesn't matter for now)
-Now add full aile or elev. Which ever changes the pitch of the blades is what you will be measuring.
-Level the flybar with the given cyclic input and record the pitch measurement. That is your cyclic pitch.
-Repeat this for the opposite direction of cyclic input. Rotate the head 90 degrees and measure for the other cyclic input.


Explains it so even "I" can understand it....!!

[istandalone]

yes i made sure that everything was squared up where needed and parallel where needed.

Also keep in mind you can "tame" the feel of the bird by adding positive EXP to AIL and ELE which will make the cyclick stick effectively less sensative around the center positions. not sure if dx6 has that feature though.

i'm not sure if the dx6 has that feature either. as stated i'm using a 7c ;). i don't think adding expo would have helped much. i did try that first, before i even got the idea to measure my cyclic pitch. it took sooo much expo to even make a difference.
so i guess my first mistake was measureing the cyclic pitch on the paddle, not the blades. i swear that i saw somewhere here that you measured cyclic pitch on the paddles :oops:. i'll measure again with my swash mixes at 50%, but this time i'll measure on the blades lol. i'll post back how it turns out.

[Happy|Harry]

OK....explain...how do you check the cyclic? On the blade is blade pitch?

I have never done this, but now you have my curiosity...

Is there an article or website to check?

************** GOOGLE FINDINGS ************
here is a post from another heli site Flying Giants.....

Mavrick- just use a standard pitch gauge on the main blades as you would to check the collective pitch.

-Center your throttle/pitch stick and make sure you are at zero degrees.
-Rotate the rotor head so that the blades are either aligned with the tail boom or at 90 degrees to it. (doesn't matter for now)
-Now add full aile or elev. Which ever changes the pitch of the blades is what you will be measuring.
-Level the flybar with the given cyclic input and record the pitch measurement. That is your cyclic pitch.
-Repeat this for the opposite direction of cyclic input. Rotate the head 90 degrees and measure for the other cyclic input.


Explains it so even "I" can understand it....!!

yep that's correct, you check both collective and cyclic pitch on the blades :)

[istandalone]

ok, so after checking my cyclic pitch the right way (a big thanks to all who set me straight), i still had over 12 degree cyclic pitch with 50% on ail and ele. moved that down to around 37% gives me 9 degrees cyclic. good enough. thanks again everyone.

[Happy|Harry]

isa is that 12º total cyclic pitch? as that's a good setting 6º+/- but if it's 12º each way it's too much ;)

fyi i have 11.5º +/- collective and 7º +/- cyclic on my H550 :)

[istandalone]

sorry, i should have specified. yes, it was (before i adjusted down the %'s) +12 degrees and -12 degrees from zero pitch. i'm running +/- 9 degree cyclic and +/- 12 degrees collective pitch. having moved the links out one hole on the flybar, and getting cyclic dialed in it's a much more managable bird now, whereas before with 12 cyclic it was almost impossible for me to control. i was starting to wonder too, what with all the talk about bigger birds being more stable. i thought that was a crock! i'm straight on that now. thanks again guys.

[MartinS819]

BTW you want to check roll cyclic AND elevator cyclic pitch, not just the roll cyclc that you mentioned. Now you should turn the blades perpendicular to the boom and measure your elevator pitch. Yes the DX6 has expo, but just not on rudder. Futabas are setup differently so the 50% that GAUI wants you to use for setup will be different from a DX(X) radio. Get it down to maybe 6 or 7 degrees if you're still practicing. That'll make it nice and tame, and then feed in more as you progress. Mine's at +-8 now and it's still easy to control but very responsive. I'm also running it with 20% expo on a DX6, but i'll be going to a Fut T7C later on, so this post has helped a ton, lol.

[istandalone]

BTW you want to check roll cyclic AND elevator cyclic pitch, not just the roll cyclc that you mentioned

i did check it both ways, but thanks for asking. may i ask why your going from a dx6 to a 7c? i'd assume if you wanted to gain that extra channel, you'd get a dx7 being that your familiar with the spektrum tx's. btw i absolutely love my 7c. i'm glad i went with it as opposed to the dx7 or the airtronics rds8000. i'd have had to learn a whole new tx language.

[ukgroucho]

Bear in mind that to "tame" the cyclic using expo on a 7C you apply negative expo. On a JR/Spectrum DX6/7 you use positive expo for this.

If you applied positive expo on your 7C then you would have made it even more twitchy.

Caveat: I assume that the 7C FASST works the same as my old 7CHP analog unit.

[istandalone]

i'm a long time (well, sort of lol) futaba user, so i'm aware. thanks for lookin out though.

[MartinS819]

I don't have a huge problem with he DX7, but lately I've been hearing about lockouts occuring in bussier wireless areas with the DX7s. I also like Futaba's rep a bit better than Spektrum. Spektrum uses off the shelf designs and parts, but Futabas are specifically made for model aviation purposes. Only thing I don't like on the T7C is not having any graphs, which I think helps with setup, but I've gotten my hands on one and it's really easy to use. I figured out how to program it in just 5 minutes with no manual.

[Stallion]

Martin: How did you get 8° cyclic out of that head without to much binding?? I am at about 7° and it allready binds a bit. When i am in a corner it is really binding!! did you do some mods to the Standard Metal Gaui Head?

I for one have the metal Seesaw which helps with the binding a lot but the long rods are binding at the screws of the washout arms. I think i am going to grind the head of these screws a bit down.

Any other suggestions concerning binding probs?

[istandalone]

maybe reduce the epa of that particular channel? is it maybe an interaction that's causing the binding?

[ukgroucho]

I don't have a huge problem with he DX7, but lately I've been hearing about lockouts occuring in bussier wireless areas with the DX7s. I also like Futaba's rep a bit better than Spektrum. Spektrum uses off the shelf designs and parts, but Futabas are specifically made for model aviation purposes. Only thing I don't like on the T7C is not having any graphs, which I think helps with setup, but I've gotten my hands on one and it's really easy to use. I figured out how to program it in just 5 minutes with no manual.

Not sure about the Spektrum lockouts... there are issues with folks not realising that they should fly with a bend in the Tx antenna. If you don't it is too easy to point the antenna directly at the model and signal strength is terrible'... then they crash and blame it on a lockout.

Futaba specifically made for model aviation purposes. REALLY?
My understanding is that Futaba's long history with 2.4Ghz is based on their industrial units - stuff for remote operation of crane booms on building sites etc. This is the technology that they 'adapted' to create FASST. Not exactly 'designed for model aviation'.