Hitech HG-5000 Gyro Setup / Review

[RMG2]

DO NOT DO THIS! What you are seeing is the piro rate. On the bench it will appear as if 1/2 stick movement causes the slider to go all the way over! In the air it doesn't work this way. The gyro is expecting the tail to MOVE when you give stick input and thus is moving the slider all the way over with just a little amount of stick movement. THIS IS NORMAL!!! You do NOT try to compensate by reducing rudder channel end points! Leave them at 100%. The rudder channel DOES NOT set travel limits on a 401 or the HG-5000.... The gyro setting does that. On a 401 its the limit pot and you adjust that so it wont go far enough over to BIND the servo. DO NOT WORRY that it goes all the way over with 1/2 rudder stick as again that is normal to see on the bench!

Bob

Dave, you can prove to yourself what Bob has said above is true. Set your tail slider travel with the gyro travel adjust then go into your TX and change the rudder travel limits (just for testing). You will see that the the tail slider still moves the amount you set with the gyro travel adjustment and the TX endpoint changes you made have no affect on actual travel volume at the slider. Don't forget to max-out your rudder ATV in your TX when you are finished testing or your rotation rate will be affected.

Personally, as beginner just about ready to try my first simple 3D maneuver, I love the Hitec (Logitec) gyro servo combo. The tail holds perfectly on hard pitch transition!

I did fly the Hitec gyro with a 9257 and the tail did not keep-up perfectly with that servo. The linkage ball was exactly the same distance from center axis on both servos so it was a fair test for both.

[TallDoode]

Thanks Bob. I appreciate the reply. I was trying to do this based on a tip from a flying buddy who flew my 500 and said the tail was too sensitive.

If anyone out there is running the DX7 I could still use some tips on why my Gear switch doesn't switch me from HH to Normal regardless of my settings. Not sure how to troubleshoot to see if it is a bad switch.

I have posted my settings in case anyone can verify them.

Input Select: Aux2,Aux2 and Gear, Gyro
Travel Adjust Screen - Everything set to 100%
Sub Trim - Everything set to 0
Gyro Sens - Auto
Rate: 0 - 72%
Rate: 1 - 48% (isnt this what is supposed to allow me to flip Gear and get Normal?)
F.Mode: Norm: 0, SNT:1, HOLD:0

What am I missing?

Thanks,

dave

[Finless]

The reason the gear switch doesn't work is you have GEAR set to GYRO in the power up master menu. The menu where you hold the buttons down and power up. Go in there and change GEAR to GEAR instead of gyro and you will then be able to toggle the gear channel with thew gear switch.

For me help watch Jermo's DX7 setup video.

Bob

[TallDoode]

In his video (which i just re-watched to make sure I didnt incorrectly interpret it) he also had Gear/Gyro set, but for demo purposes moved Gyro to AUX2/Gyro.

He states "Just for grins and giggles I will go ahead and make it the Aux channel" and "make sure the gain channel gets plugged into Aux2 instead of Gear". I want to use the Gear Channel for my Gyro.

So is this saying that if I follow his recommendations (i.e. Gear/Gyro), that I wont be able to use the Gear switch to move from HH to Normal? I am pretty much confused right now.

Thanks,

dave

[Finless]

If you use the gear channel for gyro gain then you have 2 options.
1) If gear is set to gyro then the MODE switch (normal, idle1, idle2) will control the gear channel. In the gyro menu you set to auto and you will notice you can set 3 different values for each mode. To go in and out of heading hold you could set normal for 0 and idle 1 for 100 and then toggling the mode switch between normal and idle1 should switch between normal and hh.
2) If gear is set to gear then the gear switch will control the gear channel and you can switch in and out of heading hold.

In the end you can go into the MONITOR menu and watch the gear channel do it's thing for a switch....

Bob

[TallDoode]

Okay, this helps. Thanks!

I think what is/was confusing to me is that when you do the HG-5000 setup with the 9303 you show where you can go from HH to Normal by flipping the Gear switch up and down. Mine doesnt do that like yours does so I was thinking maybe I had a bum switch. Turns out I am just not understanding the relationships between the settings and switches.

Also, I use the FLT Mode switch to toggle between normal and "stunt" (based on the setup videos). Since I dont do stunt (I am still at the hover and a bit of back and forth stage) I never flip that switch to position 1 or 2 as that is set to 100% throttle curve (once again, based on the videos).

Wow, airplanes are a lot easier to figure out! <grin>.

One final question - if my Gyro is plugged into the Gear port on my receiver, and i set Gear to "Gear" in the menu (and not to Gyro) does that impact anything else? That sounds like the best solution to my desire to be able to go in and out of HH/Normal for tuning the tail but if it makes everything else wonky then I dont want to do it. Guess the point is why does the video show Gear/Gyro if Gear/Gear works just as well?

Thanks again Bob (and Jermo!) for the replies and videos.

Cheers,

dave

[RMG2]

Okay, this helps. Thanks!

I think what is/was confusing to me is that when you do the HG-5000 setup with the 9303 you show where you can go from HH to Normal by flipping the Gear switch up and down. Mine doesnt do that like yours does so I was thinking maybe I had a bum switch. Turns out I am just not understanding the relationships between the settings and switches.

Also, I use the FLT Mode switch to toggle between normal and "stunt" (based on the setup videos). Since I dont do stunt (I am still at the hover and a bit of back and forth stage) I never flip that switch to position 1 or 2 as that is set to 100% throttle curve (once again, based on the videos).

Wow, airplanes are a lot easier to figure out! <grin>.

One final question - if my Gyro is plugged into the Gear port on my receiver, and i set Gear to "Gear" in the menu (and not to Gyro) does that impact anything else? That sounds like the best solution to my desire to be able to go in and out of HH/Normal for tuning the tail but if it makes everything else wonky then I dont want to do it. Guess the point is why does the video show Gear/Gyro if Gear/Gear works just as well?

Thanks again Bob (and Jermo!) for the replies and videos.

Cheers,

dave

Dave, I am a beginner and I fly a DX6i so I don't know if the gain adjustments work the same way as your DX7 but I am wondering about your rate mode setting of 48??? In my TX 50 is considered neutral (so to speak) and moving toward 0 increases gain in rate mode while moving away from 50 toward 100 increases gain in HH mode. For this gyro I have my rate mode percentage at 15 and HH mode at 80. I wonder if your setting of 48 is just to close to neutral and not putting your gyro to the rate mode side???

Just a thought??? Hope you get the issue resolved.

[Ivan]

First off, I only read about 6 pages of this post, so this may have been said. It is kinda hard to rifle through a gazillion pages on my mobile phone...

Anyhoot, most, if not all solid state gyros are what is called a "rate gyro". This term is thrown around a lot and I am sure not everyone understands what that means. So a bit of history:

The old mechanical gyros were only yaw dampers. Just like a shock absorber, they resisted motion. The signal on the rudder channel had to overcome the resistance of the gyro. Later on, some genious figured out how to make the gyro work with the radio instead of against it. They decided that the signal from the radio should command a given rotation rate, and thu was born the rate gyro.

All that being said, the software in the gyros is now a big factor. Any one familiar with some of the CSM gyros knows that the maximum rotation rate is programmed in to the gyro. Wether or not the mechanical setup can provide that is not really relevant in this discussion. I highly suspect that the slow piro rate in the HG5000/LT2100 is merely a software issue. I would guess it is settable to some extent, since there is a "rotate rate" setting.

Now, way back in the days of the CSM 360, the telebee came on the scene and it really sucked, bad. The redemming factor of that gyro was that it was dirt cheap and heading hold. Some one on a mailing list figured out that the software and cable from a CSM360 could be used to progam the teledrifty to be a fairly decent gyro. Not being an electrical engineer, I cant say for sure, but I would reckon there might be a way to flash the HG/LT gyros with new settings. I may be wrong, but it may be worth looking into.

Just my ramblings...

[TallDoode]

Hi RMG,

Thanks for the thoughts. The 48% was just an example. Anything under 50% should be Normal mode. Usually i run it at 72/72 but dropped it down when I was trying to do my tail tuning and my endpoints are messed up.

I am working on this right now - manually putting the servo in Normal mode so I can make adjustments. It is a pain but I need to do it and get it done. Just wish I knew more about how this all works, but I guess after I have been flying a few years I will get it all down :-).

Thanks,

[RZ350Freak]

Has anyone contacted to people that make this gyro to ask them what the problem with the slow piro rate is?

[Lzfalcon]

What voltage can the HG-5000 Handle, and what voltage can the 5083 handle. I know the instructions indicate 4.5 - 5.5 on the gyro and the servo indicates 4.8. Is this solid? Can you run 6V though both components? May it was mentioned in the thread, but I may have missed it.
Thanks

[uvlight]

hi bob, will you be posting on how fast the piro rate goes? I am kind of interested it in how fast is fast, and how slow is the 2100T/HG-5000 is.

[Lzfalcon]

What voltage can the HG-5000 Handle, and what voltage can the 5083 handle. I know the instructions indicate 4.5 - 5.5 on the gyro and the servo indicates 4.8. Is this solid? Can you run 6V though both components? May it was mentioned in the thread, but I may have missed it.
Thanks

can anybody answer this question please or point me to a thread that can help? thanks

[BrockJ]

It appears that the servo will in fact operate at 6.0v but the gyro is only rated at 4.8 - 5.5v
I'd say that 4.8 - 5.5v is your number.

If your running it in a 450 with a stock esc it'll be fine. They're @r 5.1v
I have the Logictech 2100 which is the same thing and it operates fine on the 450.

If you have a 6.0v BEC you may want to run a step down or risk frying it.

And my piro rates are a little slower than the GY-401's but not bad.
I did not do the tail offset setup for Non HH. I set it up just like a 401 and always fly in HH mode. Seems to work fine.

[mecevans]

seems like if i use a little trim it holds in HH better. moving the servo on the boom isnt the greatest way to fine tune the tail. im going to use turnbuckles on the tail to get it dialed in.

[69maverick]

I have The LG-2100T and a HG-5000 as well as two Futaba 401's the 401 is by far the better gyro but the other worked well for more normal flight. The one thing I found out to get the piro rate to perform better was to setup the gyro with the piro rate rate on the gyro set to the lowest setting and the end points/travel adjust at 100 dial it in with these settings in rate mode. Then crank the travel adjust up from there. But it still not as good as the 401 with a Futaba S9650 servo or better.

[rotaryguy]

I have some news I would like to share that I have not seen posted before...It may be out there but I have not heard nor seen it anywhere so here it is.
I will follow with a brief summary of my setup.

I picked up a new Hitec Gyro/Servo combo for my new 450 Se V2, I have previously owned the LG-2100 and the LG-6100 and of course a 401..
I did the basic setup of the 5000 for the matched servo, rotate rate= (MAXED), direction and servo limit.
I then proceed to do a few tests on the smooth surface floor to test for tail vibes, proper gyro rotation and such, MINUS the main blades.
As I remembered from the LG-2100 the piro rate was quick at full rudder but not nearly as fast as with say a 401.
After a little tape and a lot of patience the tail was running smooth at 100% throttle. I slapped on the main blades and went ouside to test the linkage setup in rate mode with a quick hover.
As I had expected rate mode caused some drift but only VERY little, before I landed I switched to HH mode and did a few minutes of flight to check for main blade tracking issues and trims and such...I then flipped the switch back to rate mode to get a last minute check on what direction I needed to adjust the linkage....One last piro before I set it down and WOW! In rate mode it spins like a BLUR! Every bit as fast as a 401 so it is certainly maxing out the slider travel in rate mode. I flip back to HH mode and sure enough, nice and slow(by comparison) at full rudder in either direction with fairly consistent stops both ways.
I go back and forth from Rate to HH mode just to confirm and there is no doubt that in Rate mode the piro rate is CRAZY FAST??? I certainly dont fly in rate mode and I would assume not many if any do which is why I have not heard of this before.
So I ask YOU, take out your rig and do a quick test for me(us). I would like to see some confirmation from others.
Sorry for the long winded post.

My setup,

HG-5000 W/ HSG-5083MG
Futaba 9CHP Super
RX=R146IP
450 SE V2, Stock Motor & ESC, 13T

Radio Setup,
Zero trims
D/R and EXPO untouched for the Rudder
End Points Maxed out for Rudder (140/140)
Gyro Settings on Radio -
AVC(HH) = 80%
Normal Rate = 80%

[sd0]

I will try it tommorow.

[HEIM JOINT]

What voltage can the HG-5000 Handle, and what voltage can the 5083 handle. I know the instructions indicate 4.5 - 5.5 on the gyro and the servo indicates 4.8. Is this solid? Can you run 6V though both components? May it was mentioned in the thread, but I may have missed it.
Thanks

I asked hitec service. They emailed that the both the gyro and servo can run on 6.0 volts. I have 180 flights at 6.0 volts with no problems.

[Glimmung23]

Has anyone had an issue with their HG-5000 or LT-2100 drifting after about 5~6 mintues of flight? This is happening to me with my LT-2100 and Futaba 9257 on my T-Rex 500. I did my best to get a solid hover in rate mode and the boom and tail case seem very secure on the heli. In my experience with other gyros, this seems like temperature drift, but I thought the LT-2100 compensated for this like a good gyro should.

Also, this problem does not show up on every flight. Sometimes at the end of the pack, the tail is solid. Other times, it's drifting to the right after a few minutes of flight. Is this is a vibration issue? I don't seem to have any bad vibes...

It's getting frustrating and I'm tempted to throw a 401 in there from another heli as I've never had any problems with a 401 in this regard...

Thank you!

[RMG2]

Has anyone had an issue with their HG-5000 or LT-2100 drifting after about 5~6 mintues of flight? This is happening to me with my LT-2100 and Futaba 9257 on my T-Rex 500. I did my best to get a solid hover in rate mode and the boom and tail case seem very secure on the heli. In my experience with other gyros, this seems like temperature drift, but I thought the LT-2100 compensated for this like a good gyro should.

Also, this problem does not show up on every flight. Sometimes at the end of the pack, the tail is solid. Other times, it's drifting to the right after a few minutes of flight. Is this is a vibration issue? I don't seem to have any bad vibes...

It's getting frustrating and I'm tempted to throw a 401 in there from another heli as I've never had any problems with a 401 in this regard...

Thank you!

I have zero drift anytime during the flight with my HG-5000 & HSG-5083MG. I did have a minor tail bounce issue when I tried a 9257 with my HG-5000. My gyro works better with the Hitec servo.

[lrz50]

Has any one tried the hitec 5084MG? Hitec shows it will handle 6v, and is faster then the 5083MG.:roll:

Larry

[mecevans]

i found that if you set up everything with ATV at 100, then crank it up, you get way faster piros! if you do the hold it left or right thing at max ATV it thinks its just at 100%.

[zencodah]

Hi,
I'm planning to use my HG-5000 & HSG-5083MG on my T500
does any one had tried it?
HSG-5083: 1,9 kg.cm of Stall Torque (at 6V)
S9257: 2 kg.cm of Stall Torque (at 4.8V)

I'm assuming that there will be no problem to use de Hitec combo on a T500, it's very important to your opinion

thanks!

PS: by the way, Bob, thank A LOT for all your videos!

[Lota Fun R]

Ya, thanks Bob for doing the video, again. :thumbup:

I've been having a lot of problems with my 401s and crashed one of my 450s today because I just couldn't get it to hold and not wag, tail totally blew out and went skidding up the driveway.............:arggg:

Well enough was enough and I put the Logictech 2100 on it with 3100 servo.

with only one test flight at dusk...........it held nicely and didn't get any wag at all, yet.

It would power out and hold and I haven't even put max gain in yet.


I had a problem with the PDF manual, didn't make sense at all, translator broken.....

Your video, Bob, walked me right through it. Only difference was I have a DX7, I'll get a 9303 one day............Bob's gotta be all high brow on us........:YeaBaby: jk


I"m sure it will work out great, I don't do the "pinwheel piro's" very often.

Both my 401s(w/9650) need to go back to Futaba, they won't hold or I get wag, so I've been flying with unpredictable wag, never know when it's gonna wag on me. :dontknow

I've done everything to try to fix it, short of sending the gyro back, new tail, different servo, counter weight mod, new this, new that...........very frustrating.



I was just "SO HAPPY" to see this little Logictech hold the tail on a climb out and not wag, I think I can get over not being able to do "pinwheel piro's".

Thanks on the vid, I owe you one....:cheers

M