Hitech HG-5000 Gyro Setup / Review

[Finless]

OK folks...

As part of building the BeamE4 I needed a gyro. I was at my local hobby shop (Rob's RC Hobbies) and while they they asked me if I ever did anything on Hitech's new gyro the HG-5000. I told them no but wanted to. They decided to sponsor a video on setup of this gyro right then and there and I didn't even ask! Very cool :)

Rob and Michelle are great people so of course I accepted EASILY. Thanks you guys!

So with that here we go... I am using this on my BeamE4 so it is using that heli for setup. Should be the same as many other 450 helis.

OK so lets get on with it. If you don't mind how about watching a little FUN and see my local hobby shop and say hello!
VIDEO LINK -> Visit to my Local Hobby Shop (12 Megs) (http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=finless/hitec/hg5000&filename=robs.wmv)

On with the setup vids!

VIDEO LINK -> Hitech Servo Install (27 Megs) (http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=finless/hitec/hg5000&filename=servoinst.wmv)

VIDEO LINK -> Steps 1-3 Radio type, Servo Type and Rotate Rate settings (33 Megs) (http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=finless/hitec/hg5000&filename=step1_3.wmv)

VIDEO LINK -> Steps 4&5 Servo Setup and Gyro Direction settings (40 Megs) (http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=finless/hitec/hg5000&filename=step4_5.wmv)

VIDEO LINK -> Step 6 Servo Limit Settings (24 Megs) (http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=finless/hitec/hg5000&filename=step6.wmv)

VIDEO LINK -> Step 7 Setting up RATE mode and final setup (34 Megs) (http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=finless/hitec/hg5000&filename=step7.wmv)

OK that will finish the setup stuff. I will do flight testing this weekend along with the BeamE4 flight report. I will share final setting and how I liked the gyro.

Enjoy!
Bob

[Vinger]

Thanks Bob, at least now the Logitech/Hitech can get a bit of fair comment. :thumbup: Steps4-5 file is not available! Spelling of file should be step4_5 and not sstep4_5

I get a whipping stop to the one side and a mushy one to the other side. CSM has a trick of offsetting the servo arm to one side and not 90deg as everybody preach. Here is there explanation:

Servo arm offsetting

Some helicopter tail linkage geometries give somewhat asymmetric response to tail pushrod movement with much more rapid changes in pitch occurring one way than the other. In these cases the servo throw to cover the full pitch range may be greater one way than the other. The SL720 has independent travel adjustments for the two directions to accommodate these differences. In some machines more symmetrical handling characteristics may be obtained if the servo arm is rotated around one or even two splines on the servo shaft so that it is no longer at right angles to the pushrod when the servo is centred. A change in the pushrod length will be needed to restore the 8 degrees of pitch with the servo centred. With the servo arm offset in the correct direction the servo throws will be more equal. Remember that the travel limits will need re-adjusting after this process to ensure the full tail pitch range is available.

Adjusting the Stop quality

At the initial installation you will have made sure that the servo travel limits are set so the tail pitch each way is limited only by the mechanical limits of the linkage. You will also have carried out the Quick-trim procedure and adjusted the gyro gain to the maximum that gives no wagging. Now assess the quality of the left and right stops from fast pirouettes (i.e. full stick). Note if the stops are sharp enough for your flying style and see if there is a marked difference between the two stops noting which stop is the softer. If you are trying to obtain fast stops you will find, beyond a certain point, that increasing the gyro gain has only a marginal effect on stop speed. This is because the available tail rotor authority dominates stop times from fast pirouettes. If, having optimised the gain, the stops are softer than you require you will need to increase the power of the tail rotor. Since you will already be using the maximum pitch range available increase in the tail blade length should be made. A small increase in tail blade length can make a large increase in the available thrust of the tail rotor. Longer tail blades increase the mechanical gain of the tail system so an adjustment to the gyro gain may be needed.
In many cases only one of the stops is soft. Check that the mode 0 trim is acceptable and repeat Quick-trim if needed before re-assessing the difference between the stops. A lack of tail-rotor pitch one way (usually in the leftward direction) is quite common. This shows up in slower entry into left pirouettes and slower stops from right pirouettes and can be especially noticeable with governed engine systems in low G manoeuvres (e.g. stall turns). We find that good tail performance is obtained with 45 degrees of right tail pitch and 35 degrees of left tail pitch. In extreme cases it may be necessary to increase the tail blade length until the soft stop becomes acceptable. Prevent the faster stop becoming excessively hard by a small reduction in the travel adjustment for the appropriate pitch direction.Generally this will be all that is required to obtain matched stops from all speeds. However if stops from more modest speeds of about 180 deg./s show some left-right imbalance then these can be matched by use of the stop tracking controls via the PC interface

The left and right hand stops are not equal. Stops from right hand turns are slow but clean while left hand stops are bouncy.- The mechanical tail trim needs setting correctly. Carry out the procedure in the Quick-trim section of this manual and reassess. If you still have problems, try reducing one servo travel as follows: - if bouncy when stopping left turns, reduce the right pitch travel limit and vice versa.

[Finless]

fixed the file name......

Thanks for sharing that tid bit! In fact I do that with a 401 to get rid of that same issue with the hard stop! Old trick from the 80 before gyro's too ;)
Some people say NO... Don't do that but using mechanical setup to even the throw works! Take advantage of the arc of the servo arm I always say ;)

Thanks!

bob

[Justin911]

thatnks again bob... This set of vids will definately help me out.

[psilo]

Thanks Bob.

I am assuming that the Hitec is basically the same as the Logictech 2100? I am curious as on the Logictech it tells you to leave the End Points at max and use the D/R to reduce your piro rate?

Thanks

Gerd

[Finless]

Well using DR is OK too... But really it doesn't matter. Lowe numbers on rudder reduce piro rate and higher numbers increase it. Using dual rate reduces when turned on so same result. I personally don't want to worry about another switch and once I get the piro rate set where I want it I never change it.

Yes the setup of ther 2100 is pretty much the same.....

Bob

[psilo]

Thanks. Will be rebuilding my Belt CP soon so these videos will come in handy as I have the 2100T with the 3100G servo on there.

[Takis]

Hi.
Thanks for helping us.
One issue:
Using Futaba Tx, should I use Gyro mode Gy or Std?
Mix Act or Inh?
I use Mode Gy, Mix Act ,Rate Up AVC 80% and Down Nor 70%.
Should I keep it so?
Also, I think I can use rate mode to center servo. Is that so?
Best
Takis Katsoris

[K27R]

A couple of questions:

1. When setting up for the transmitter. The gyro directions mentions to set your limit on the rudder to 150%. In your video it looks like 100% worked, but maybe it work on peoples set up. I don't know. When I set mine up I used a X9303 and set rudder ATV, whoops thats Futaba lingo, travel adjust to 150%.

2. If you want a faster pirouette which do you do; set the travel adjust, I am getting used to my JR lingo now, to 150% or increase the Rotate Rate on the gyro?

[Finless]

If you watch the video again later after having to go farther out on the servo arm I tell you to set for 150 for setting limits!

Like any gyro you increase the rudder end points for faster piro.... BUT there is another adjustment called rotate rate... Now I have screwed with this adjustment both directions and I really DO NOT feel any real big difference in this setting.

Soon I will have the flying of the BeamE4 up soon and the bad news about this gyro... I don't like this gyro that well just like I didn't really like the LT2100.... The piro rate is slow even at max end points and rotate rate AND the hold is still softer than I like. :(

Bob

[ltfdrescue]

What about adding some Expo to the rudder? won't that slow the piro rate down without changing the endpoints? I

[Finless]

I dont want to slow it down I want to speed it up. It is too slow in my opinion.

Bob

[testpilot58d]

Bob,

I used the setup videos (for both the whole heli, and my logitech 2100)

I have endpoints for my rudder set to 140. I get great piro rate.

Problem is when I come off the stick. Piro stops, but it does just a little kick at the very end, like it went too far then corrects. It's barely noticeable..maybe a couple degrees.

If it matters, I have my Gain at 70%. Futaba S3153 tail servo, and rotation speed on the gyro set on 7 (I think)

I read somewhere that this can be cause by setting the rotation rate on the gyro itself improperly. Should I increase it or decrease it?

here's a link...I don't know if you can see the little kick I'm talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhNFHq3EGo8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhNFHq3EGo8)

Go easy on me...I'm kinda new...not the best flier in the world. (And yes...I did almost put it into the ground on the third one)

Thank You!

Brian

P.S. reference the Piro rate...in the video those are only about 3/4 rudder. On the first pack I did one almost full stick and scared the crap out of myself.

[Finless]

Back when I tried the L2100T it HATED some servos (like the 9257) and gave that bounce. No matter what I set the rotate rate to it didnt help much. Best I can tell ya. I have a 2100T with 9650 that works fine and I also get no bounce back with the Hitec servo that came with the HG-5000.

Well I have messed with everything on this gyro even leaving my end points at 150 and I don't like the piro rate. It OK but certainly not as fast as i can get a 401 to do.

Bob

[testpilot58d]

Thanks Bob,

Just the last push I neeeded to buy a 9650. Appreciate the advice!

Brian

[SeaComms]

Hi Bob, I know you have said here you are not that impressed with the gyro, but I am looking to replace the stock gyro on the Blade 400, as it has a wonderful habit of creeping every which way it pleases. I was looking at this package and the 401+ 9257 package. Problem is I can get the Hitec package for about $150 delivered, but the 401 package is about $100+ dearer. For a newby pilot just wanting a controllable bird would you say its worth the money?

Cheers, Dave.

[Finless]

Sure... probably work fine on the blade400. Just realize it's not the hottest gyro out there. Agaim my only complaint is piro rate.

Bob

[aldous]

awesome videos. I am having trouble with my 2100t though, i set it up in rate mode and everything is fine. As soon as i turn on HH mode the tail wants to spin left. It takes a lot of left stick to compensate I believe i have set everything up correctly. The radio I'm using is a rd8000 so my gyro rate is at 32 for rate mode and -32 for HH mode. I know that seems a little weird but below 0 is HH mode and above 0 is rate mode. any help would be greatly appreciated.

[testpilot58d]

Aldous,

I would say its probably spinning because your gyro isn't detecting that your heli is moving. Your gain is set way too low. Bump that to +70 and -70 and see if it still does it.

Brian

[aldous]

I tried bumping up the gain, and now it still spins but it stutters. Almost like the third hand of a stop watch. The only way i can get it to hold is with the trim settings all the way left.

[aldous]

Thanks for the help Brian, but i finally figured out the problem. First the negative number being head holding. There was a reverse setting in the gyro section of my radio after i switched that negative was rate positive was HH. Next my radio comes setup with revolution mixing turned on by default, after turning that off my tail holds well.

[testpilot58d]

No problem,

That was actually a second posting that I started to typed up, but was going to wait to see how the first idea turned out. Was going to say 'are you sure you aren't in heading hold when you think you are in rate and vice versa?'

If its taking some left rudder to hold the tail in rate, you may want to adjust the position of your servo just a bit on your boom to take that out.

Glad you got it sorted out.

Brian

[davidwp56]

Bob,
I have run thru setup on my gyro (lt2100) three or four times and seem to have a problem with slow drift to the left. Initially i found I had accidently set up with one click of trim in the settings, have since reset fully and as I have read in other threads rebound my TX/RX as I am using a DX7/6100 radio, this initially seemed to work, but the drift has reappeared.Went thru your setup again start to finish and have virtually zero drift in rate mode, but in HH I get this left drift, am running 72 gain in HH and 68 in rate, if i bump up the gain I appear to get slight wag, have checked gyro mounting re routed cables to ensure they are no pulling against the gyro, no binding on linkages ect. I notice if I sit the heli and switch in from rate mode the tail servo is creeping. I am running about 80% throttle at hover. I am using no name lipos while i wait for my new packs to arrive, could maybe poor performing packs cause me a problem??. As i new to this I am not totally sure of how well the tail should lock, I would have thought that in HH it should hold without input when hovering in only light breeze, or do you usually have to correct occassionally?Any ideas would be apprieciated.
Thanks for the videos have used them all.
David.

Ok to add to the above since I wrote this I have gone back thru all my settings, and have changed only my piro rate, I am only a noob so I set the piro at 100 either side to keep it slow, have now taken this up to 120 and I dont seem to have any drift?? nor is the tail servo creeping, I wouldn't have thought this should affect the tail hold.

[princew]

jm2¢...

I tried this gyro in my TR450 v2 and I wasn't really all that impressed with the performance given how much setup is needed and how delicate it is to get everything perfect with it. For now I'll stick with my 401 because it performs at least just as well or better, is a cpl bucks more, and requires virtually no special setup at all. I loved that the 5000/2100 has seperate endpoints, but the 401 doesn't need to be setup in rate mode anyways, so they aren't necessary with Futaba as you just set the servo in the exact center of the tail slider and you are ready to fly with a rock solid tail.

[In_to_the_Mystic_2003]

Trex 450SE
HG-5000 with 5083 Servo
Align Carbon Tail Blades
Chinese Weight Mod on Tail

This combination finally achieved a Solid Tail.
Important Points:
1. No Subtrim on Rudder
2. Rudder Endpoints at 125%
3. Carbon Blades much better than Batwing Blades or KS Blades
4. Chinese Weight Mod makes a HUGE Difference
5. Tail Servo Arm - Ball on inner hole
6. MUST setup with Gyro in Normal Mode(30%) so tail does not go left or right
7. Make sure you set enpoints on Gyro to max travel after all this.
8. Gyro Mounted Under boom with Plexiglass Plate with the 3M Black Double Sided Tape

I hesitate to make random suggestions, just the combination that achieved the desired result of a Solid Tail. I have a 2nd Trex 450 with a 401 and 9650 but not built yet, cannot wait to try that combination.