TRM 23 not starting

[highheli]

I hope there is someone that can help me, please.
My spectra is almost done with its first gallon of lawn boy and camper fuel, but now it won't start. On the last flight, it jump head speed on me from 1650 to 1900. I quickly landed it and let the engine cool down. The next day it just wouldn't start. I have checked the plug and it does have sparks and the engine is getting fuel. I can smell it.
Please help. Thanks in advance
Ben

[bigrcr]

How long did the head speed run to 1900 RPM? That would reflect as around 13,600 RPM and should not hurt the motor. The problem is in the reason for the jump in head speed (motor RPM). From the little you described, I would say that it was from a very lean condition for one reason or another (especially going from 11,800 RPM to 13,600 RPM).

I need a bit more information:

-What were the needle settings (both) at the time of the incident? Turn both needles in until they seat lightly and count the turns IN.

-What air breather are you using? If it is a MA filter, did you shorten the bolts?

-Why did you have to wait for the motor to cool? Did it get hotter than normal or did it get hard to turn over, etc.??

-Did the muffler loosen and which one are you using?

-Have you recently added anything to the motor or done anything differently?

Once I get this info from you I can drill down and look into your problem.

Awaiting your reply,

[highheli]

Thank you so much for responding so quickly. You don't know how much this mean. There are not a lot of gasser enthusiasts around where I live.

-It was running at 1900 for less than a minute. I had a buddy taching it for me. But even without the tach I can hear the engine was reving up more than expected.

-Needle setting were right at 1.5 for low and about 1.7 for high. I didn't think that this was a problem since I check the plug at the end of each flying day. The plug looked rich, (I've been doing a lot of reading on tunning and breaking in on this engine from this site) therefore I didn't think the engine was at all lean.

-I am using the stock air filter and have hatori pipe for the motor. Both were secure solid on the engine.

-The temperature on it read 289 as a high. On past flights, i got around 250-260 max.

-I did not do anything different to the motor. And the reason I let it cooled down was because I thought somewhere in my reading, it said to do so after each flight on break-in. I tried to take good care of it, since I do not want to damage the good, expensive equipements I have poured into this heli.

I still have faith in the machine and equipement on it, eventhough there is a lot of bad talks out there about it. I'm going to try and prove them wrong. Any suggestions or solutions would be greatly appriciated. If you need more info, let me know.

[bigrcr]

OK. Since you said that you had a good spark I won't go into the coil and grounding issues.


It sounds like you are doing things right, keep it up. Yes, you are doing right by letting it cool between flights. I just wanted to know if you did it because you felt that it got really hot or had some other special issue.


-Make sure that the throttle barrel is opened enough at your idle position.
-Put in a new plug (to see if your current plug is fouled).
-make sure that the fuel is being picked up to the carb well, pump your primer bulb.
-Check to see if the carb bolts are still secure. Careful and don't get these bolts too tight as the insulator can crack.
-Remove the air breather for now, at least until you get it running (inspect it while it's apart). Make sure that the foam element is not saturated with oil.
-Until you get it to start reset your bottom needle to around 1 3/8 turn and possibly as low as 1 1/4.

Give it a try!!!

Let me know how goes it.

Later,

[highheli]

Thank you very much for the advices. I just ordered a plug from Horizon, and will test all your suggestions out. I will post what I encounter, soon.

bye for now.

[highheli]

Hi again.

With the new spark plug, the engine started great. Then the surge in RPM came back on the second tank. It was shut down and let cool. The third time, the engine refused to start. The recoil broke off the latch that catches the recoil, so I call it a day.

I am thinking I should call TRM and possibly send the engine to them for them to look over.

Any feedback on this? I don't know what else to try.

Thanks

[rd13603]

Hi,

I'm new to gassers but I can tell you the same thing happended to me. Once my first gallon of break in oil was done and I changed oils on the second tank the engine would not start. Following the Instruction manual I did richen both needles a little. I stress a little. On the first tank no issue except I noticed an increase in head speed by 200 rpm (total 1800rpm now). On the second tank I did not adjjust the needles and the engine failed to start..... If this is mt understanding of what happened to you then here's the solution. After trying for 5 minutes with more priming every time the engine would not show a sign of life. So I removed the air filter. The engine then started on the 3rd pull. Wild guess here but the engine was not getting any fuel when priming even though the return line was showing the fuel returning to the tank. Note also with the air filter off I primed the engine at full throttle to let air in.

Give it a try......

John Garst - what are your thoughts on this solution. It worked for me but I'm unsure why. Can you explain it?

PS: Just converted my ship to a 16oz tank.

Richard Demers (Canada) :roll:

[bigrcr]

Actually the primer circuit does not put fuel into the carb, it only brings it up to the pump circuit. Choking the motor will bring fuel into the carb. You should, as you stated, have seen a gradual pick-up of RPM during the first gallon (and for a little while to come) with each flight. That is the motor breaking-in and requiring more fuel. Keep richening up the needles (keep them as rich as possible) as the motor breaks in. When you don't have to richen any more is the sure sign that the motor is fully (or nearly so) broken-in.

The stock air box is a bit restrictive, get the MA filter (it's the best-I have tested many). If the low needle is set close enough and the spark plug is good, the motor will start as soon as the re is enough fuel into the carb/cylinder.

Using the top start is the best way for me and the motor starts instantly every time using NO choking, ever. The pull starter is a thing of the past :mrgreen:


later,

[wore-out-pilot]

John is was great meeting you at Ircha. I really appreciate you helping Danny and myself. We are still richening our needles and they are running stronger all the time. As Will says Sprectra G's Rock.


Again from Louisville, Ky. a big thanks,

bill

[bigrcr]

Great meeting you all as well. I am so glad to hear that your machine is running fine. It sounds like I did you some good as you now are developing the "ear" for the motor!!! That's what it is all about!! Keep smiling!

Later,

[r/c_outlaw]

Hey John...it was great to meet ya and get some good information about the spectra...mine is surging quite badly...tried needle's in ever way..yesterday i switched my plug with Wore out pilots plug and the thing ran like a champ again...I noticed my gap was closed up less then his...so i gapped mine like his and put it back in....still som surging...and i have gotten very high head speeds upon spool up like it is not even sencing the revloc...where can i get the NGK plug or another campion..nobody around here seems to carrie it...what is the part number for the NGK..thanks for any help...i feel like it is the plug..?? :?