Logo 500 V-Bar Fit on Hurricane?

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

Considering playing with the new SK360 flybarless system, and was wondering if the Logo 500's head would fit on the Hurricane?
http://www.skookumrobotics.com/index.html
http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=6244

I've only heard good things about the Logo's, so assume it's a good head if it does fit?

If not, how hard would it be to modify the Hurricane's head to go flybarless? I'll have to play with it tonight and see if I can figure it out myself. :)

Thanks,
Jason

[worldofmaya]

Have a look there -> http://www.rc-heli-fan.org/viewtopic.php?t=39513&highlight=helicommand
It's a German forum... but I think pictures are okay! He uses a Heli Command Rigid.
[Edit] I like the idea of using a Mikado head but what I remember, Mikado uses a much thicker shaft! The spindle shaft and blade grip from Mikado is really extreme...
-klaus

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

After some research, I see the Logo uses a 10mm main shaft as opposed to the Hurricane's 8mm shaft. Bummer.

BUT, after checking your link, I decided to go for it, and just mod the stock head. I went ahead and ordered the SK360, and hopefully it will be here soon.

I'll be sure to post up if I can get it to work!

Thanks,
Jason

[mysticmead]

Oooooooooo... I like the nice clean look of that 550 flybarless... yeah.. I want to see you get yours setup and give a flight report..if it flies as good as that looks... my wife is gonna kill me

[xodarap1]

That does look smooth!
Did you check out the close spacing for the links at the servos?

[Wazzer]

My brain hurts

[Wazzer]

oops

[Wazzer]

Oooooooooo... I like the nice clean look of that 550 flybarless... yeah.. I want to see you get yours setup and give a flight report..if it flies as good as that looks... my wife is gonna kill me

This will really open up the exotic world of flybarless helis to the masses

There was also a Pro Bar flybarless system spoken about over on RCG but that thread seems to have gone dead.

I wonder if her indoors would miss her car much?

[Wazzer]

After some research, I see the Logo uses a 10mm main shaft as opposed to the Hurricane's 8mm shaft. Bummer.

BUT, after checking your link, I decided to go for it, and just mod the stock head. I went ahead and ordered the SK360, and hopefully it will be here soon.

I'll be sure to post up if I can get it to work!

Thanks,
Jason


You could always have a small insert machined to reduce the Mikado head to 8mm!

As long as the tolerances are tight its shouldnt be a problem at all.

However it is possible to convert the Standard Hurricane head to flybarless quite easily with modified standard parts.

Please post us some pictures and flight reports when you get her set up

I am going to sell my Titanium Shogun 400 and all the spares (considerable amount) with a view to financing a flybarless conversion. the Z20 i wanted can wait a while thats much easier to get past the wife!

[worldofmaya]

Hi!
The Mikado head is really massive! That's why I like it! If there's some way to get it on a hurricane main mast...
I can't wait to see the Align V-bar system. If it really works it will be a real price cut for this systems!
-klaus

[mjdee14]

Whoever has flown a flybarless.....how does it fly compared to the flybar?

What is the benifit other than looks...becuase at 100 ft and 2200 RPM's I can "hardly" see the flybar !! :thinking

Is this just technology for technology sake...or is there a real benifit for the money spent?

Inquiring minds want to know....

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

Whoever has flown a flybarless.....how does it fly compared to the flybar?

What is the benifit other than looks...becuase at 100 ft and 2200 RPM's I can "hardly" see the flybar !! :thinking

Is this just technology for technology sake...or is there a real benifit for the money spent?

Inquiring minds want to know....Probably equal parts real benefit and "just because". :)

As to real benefit:
1) Less Mass = Better Efficiency
2) No Paddles = Better Efficiency
3) Fewer Mechanical Parts = Lower crash cost?? (not sure I buy into this, but why not!)
4) Easily tweak flight characteristics
5) More neutral feel. From the website, "this means that if you let go of the sticks, it will hold to whatever attitude it is currently at. If you put it in a perfectly level hover, it should stay there hands-off for some time, even in wind. If you're in forward flight, it will stay in forward flight with no tendency to pitch up or down."
6) Being the cool kid with the new toy = Priceless. :)

As far as efficiency, I think it may get you another minute of flight time per pack. Not really worth the cost from that standpoint, but I'm not in the hobby for it's cost efficiency!

[mjdee14]

Sounds like a great deal for real 3D guys..

I kind of like a heli that trys to right itself....it's actually why I put on the trex flybar...

I'm with you about the new toy....but I'll have to wait till I'm a lot better than I am today at flying..

[worldofmaya]

You forgot real scale flight! Two blades without flybar look much more like scale and if you use a 3 or more grip head it makes flying much easier!
-klaus

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

How would the performance on a 3 blade (or more) flybarless setup compare to a 2 blade flybar setup? Is there actually an advantage one way or the other?

I would think (for model helicopters) there wouldn't be any benefit to 3 or more blades other than looking cool. Though as long as it didn't hurt the performance, I might try it just for that. :)

[michael88997]

i saw a flybarless logo at a funfly and it was insane... it increases your cycle like crazy... this bird rolled so fast and probably was doing 75mph on a flyby... yea i dont buy the lower crash cost because you would crash alot of times to replace a 2 dollar flybar in order to justify the 600 dollar stuff plus the flybarless stuff can get damaged which would be more, but it makes the heli look like its on crack

[worldofmaya]

The main point is that you lose power with your paddles and the heli feels much more "direct". There's no paddle in between trying to work against your input. I think the crash cost argument is ridiculous... you have to buy fast servos. Otherwise it doesn't make sense. A good v-bar system costs quit a lot... you could get a heli with electronics for the price of a vstabi setup. The new Gyrobot system will cost nearly as much... let's see if align can hold what they promise and sell it for a decent price. I would love to throw my flybar out of the window...
-klaus

ps.: seeing a Logo in reality is really different... videos are nice but reality is much better! Really hard not to run into the next shop and buy one of them :)

[skydude]

Oooooooooo... I like the nice clean look of that 550 flybarless...... my wife is gonna kill me

I doubt she will have any use for your heli's, so............that's skydude.....S...K...Y...D....U....D....E.......... With an S. Gainesville. After you get the Hurri of course and THEN..........let her have at it.

And the great part is it will obviously come with the flybarless system.

The thread on the main forum is talking about an under $400 system? that provides 2 axis and you use your existing tail gyro.

Not sure if it is just for 450 size. Have been following it intermittently.

Makes sense that it is hot. Not fighting/throwing around the flybar.

I hate the drake, err, I mean flybar.

--

[mysticmead]

yep.. the one from the main forum is the same one in this thread :D $329 is dirt cheap for a flybarless system... it'll be a long time before I go that route.. but I really want to see a hurri running this system...

[Wazzer]

Sounds like a great deal for real 3D guys..

I kind of like a heli that trys to right itself....it's actually why I put on the trex flybar...

I'm with you about the new toy....but I'll have to wait till I'm a lot better than I am today at flying..

You forgot real scale flight! Two blades without flybar look much more like scale and if you use a 3 or more grip head it makes flying much easier!
-klaus

One of the main benefits of a flybarless system is that it lets you tune the flight characteristics much more easily. It will allow you to have crazy fast cyclics for instant flips and rolls but still remain very stable in the hover. Which also means it can easily be set up to help us new flyer's speed up our learning curve

It will also allow you to fly in higher winds than you would have done previously due to the active stabilisation it will possess.

I also think that the reduced crash cost is a real benefit, Fly bars and paddles are the obvious ones flybar see saw's mixing arms etc and with some harder head dampers (i think they perform well with nearly solid dampers) you will reduce the chances of a boom strike. Also the time it takes to rebuild and set up your heli after a crash will be greatly reduced. Not to mention eliminating many parts that could have caused a crash in the first place like loose ball joints, binding leavers etc.

How many people have had crashes due to mechanical failures?

I think anything that lets us simplify the mechanics of these heli's is a step in the right direction.

Also if the desire takes you, these systems allow you to fly multi bladed heads for that more realistic scale appearance.

I am gonna try to sell my Titanium shogun and all spares to fund the purchase of a SK360

you may have guessed I WANT ONE!!

Ben

[skydude]

It has all become crystal clear. It is the FLYBAR that has been holding me back form doing all the crazy 3D.:YeaBaby:

--

[Wazzer]

Considering playing with the new SK360 flybarless system, and was wondering if the Logo 500's head would fit on the Hurricane?
http://www.skookumrobotics.com/index.html
http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=6244

I've only heard good things about the Logo's, so assume it's a good head if it does fit?

If not, how hard would it be to modify the Hurricane's head to go flybarless? I'll have to play with it tonight and see if I can figure it out myself. :)

Thanks,
Jason

How about this

http://www.lf-technik.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3335_Tuning-Rigid-Rotorhead-for-Raptor-and-T-Rex.html/XTCsid/4d2683b045bbdddcf5f9a859f8ed9edb

Its pretty expensive but will fit straight onto the Hurry Main shaft and these guys have a reputation for very high quality and high performance.

It is however an All metal head with huge spindle and much better looking imho

just a thought

Ben

[mjdee14]

How about this

http://www.lf-technik.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3335_Tuning-Rigid-Rotorhead-for-Raptor-and-T-Rex.html/XTCsid/4d2683b045bbdddcf5f9a859f8ed9edb

Its pretty expensive but will fit straight onto the Hurry Main shaft and these guys have a reputation for very high quality and high performance.

just a thought

Ben

Wazzer...it doesn't look any different than a metal 550 head without the bar ?

Would'nt the stock metal head work as long as you used the electronics ?

I'm not up on the FB set up so maybe I'm missing an important part. From the picture I saw before...it just looks like they had spindles coming off the standard grip arms...I figured that was to give it more torque to help the servos.

[Wazzer]

The main difference is this head has provisions to drive the upper part of the swash plate around. Its also a very rigid head which helps the virtual flybar electronics do their thing better. It also has the correct geometry for the blade grip arms.

One of the problems with converting many existing flybar heads to run without a flybar is reducing the servo throw to the blade grips without loosing resolution in the control output.

Here is a nice approach on a Hurricane
He has reduced the servo throw at the bell cranks by moving the links in on the servo arms and again on the blade grips with the extensions. all this helps to reduce the movement and retain the resolution.

I still think it can be done cleaner though.

Also note that he has a modified washout to drive the upper swash as opposed to the dedicated flybarless head uses the pitch links to drive the swash.

Also attached is an old GMP flybarless head from many moon ago note the small levers to reduce the movement to the blade grips.