The best timing and cut off settings for H550 motors..

[xodarap1]

Hi,

Today I made a change to the ESC timing on my 450 heli and was shocked that it gave me 3 more minutes of flight time per pack!

I had been flying the HDX 4200 motor and had the ESC setting at LOW timing mode and LOW cut off voltage and had been getting 4:20 flights with my 2200 15C Li-Po's.

Tonight, I changed the settings to: MEDIUM timing mode and HIGH cut off voltage. I then flew the heli with the same battery (after a re-charge) for 8:25! After the flight the pack read 10.9 volts.

It got me wondering how many people are flying helis with the wrong timing modes and cut offs selected as I was. I still am not sure how to tell what the correct modes are and what Low, Medium, High do anymore. I thought I understood it, but evidently not. I thought that the Low cut off setting would run the batteries down to a lower voltage before cutting off the power (either hard or soft cut off) and the High cut off would cut the power at a higher voltage. Is that still correct?

So, now i'm sitting here wondering if i have the timing mode set correctly for the Z20A 980 motor and if I ever had the Z30 set correctly when I was testing that. I'm using HobbyWing ESC's in all my helis and have always had them set to LOW timing mode and LOW cut off.

Does anyone know what the proper timing mode are for the Z20A and the Z30A motors?

Has anyone actually tested/timed their flights with the timings set differently?

If so, what was the results and what ESC were you using?

I would really appreciate anyone that can help out to explain how the timing features of the ESC's work and also the cut off modes.

Thanks so much.

Steve :)

[mjdee14]

C:\Documents and Settings\dwservice\My Documents\Heli\RCE-BL75G.mht

look at the above link...it's from Align for their 75a esc...it gives guidance for timing and voltage cutoffs.

Basically low timing is for 2 pole inrunner motors and mid or high is for 6 or more poles (which is what we have on the 550)...preferabbly mid timing is recommended.

The voltage cuttoff says high is 3.2v per cell mid is 2.9v and the low is 2.6v. generally we try never to get that low anyway or else we run the chance or ruining the lipos....but we wouldn't want it to cut the power just becuase of a momentary spike in amps causing a low voltage.

i would rethink your setting of the high cutoff....

[mysticmead]

that link is to a file on your computer :D

[mjdee14]

that link is to a file on your computer :D

Duh !! didn't even look at the address

http://www.align.com.tw/html/en/c_rindexe.htm

try this one...it goes directly to align..... if the page doesn't come up select manulas from the home page under RC it has all their manuals for all products

Tried it...you'll have to pull it up under escapes.

[xodarap1]

Thank you very much.

From what I've been able to dig up, the Z20A is an 8 pole motor so running it as I had been at Low timing wasn't correct. One of the Z20A's that I have is blue and the other is red. Not sure what/why that is. I'm guessing one is an older model?

Anyway, I understand what you mean about the High cut off setting and I will adjust it to Mid.

It seems that High timing mode gives better performance but shorter run times so I'm going to stick with Mid.

[xodarap1]

I tested the Z20A 980KV hurricane (same RCP 500mm blades, 16T pinion, pitch and throttle curves) with the timing set to Mid instead of Low and got 5:30 flight times for 4 consecutive flights. With the timing set on Low I got similar times but the heli did seem more crisp with the timing set on Mid.

Next, I was curious and said what the hay.. and switched the other hurricanes Z20A motor out and put the Z30A 1110 motor back in with the ESC set to Mid instead of Low.

When the timing was on Low, I was only able to get 3:30 flights with the Z30A and that was just hard sport flying! With the timing on Mid I was able to do some power hogging 3-D and landed at the 5:10 mark. All these flights were done with pairs of 3S 11.1V Kong Power 2200 25C's.

I'm going to continue to fly the Z20A and Z30A setups for a while like this with the same battery sets to see how everything holds up.

I don't know why my flight time increased so much more with the Z30A, and not as much with the Z20A, but i'm glad it did! 5:10 hard flying with the Z30A is a big jump up from 3:30 and I can live with that.

*For the Z30A testing I used the same RCP 500mm blades, 13T pinion w/ stock gears. The pitch curves and throttle curves were the same.

[michael88997]

this may be a stupid question but can you change the timing on the gaui 50amp esc?
i was looking at the instructions and it doesnt say anything about it

[mysticmead]

Hmmmm... now if I could find out if the gaui 75a ESC can be programmed to mid timing...and if the Z30 would be easy enough on the 2200mah 25c Lipos.. that might be the best option for the heli.. what kind of flight times can you get on the Z30 doing mild to medium sport flying? 7 minutes?

[michael88997]

what esc are you using xodarap1? if i could put my rcp 1100kv on there and use my kong 2200 packs and get 5min id be happy

[xodarap1]

I'm using a HobbyWing 60A Opto ESC and I haven't tried just cruising around sport flying yet with the timing set this way.

I will do that tomorrow if the weather is nice and will post the flight time then. I was surprised to get similar flight times with both motors since the Z30A had much more punch to it when I was flying. It really was hard for me to believe what I was seeing when i looked at my timer.

Tomorrow I will do some fff, a loop or two, high bank turns, stall turns and some easy figure 8's, piro's and some hovers and we will see what the results are.

I won't do any hard punch outs, fast snap rolls or flips and no inverts, tail slides or push overs.

[xodarap1]

I don't know if the RCP 1100 is as efficient as the Z30A 1110. It very well may be, but I don't know if it is or not. I do have a RCP 1100 here on my shelf as well, but to be honest, after switching over to the Z30A again today and messing with that motor mount in, motor mount out, motor mount in, motor mount out gear mesh thingy for 4 or 5 times to get it perfect, ..I really hate to take the motor out and then switch it back again. :)

[mjdee14]

I don't know if the RCP 1100 is as efficient as the Z30A 1110. It very well may be, but I don't know if it is or not. I do have a RCP 1100 here on my shelf as well, but to be honest, after switching over to the Z30A again today and messing with that motor mount in, motor mount out, motor mount in, motor mount out gear mesh thingy for 4 or 5 times to get it perfect, ..I really hate to take the motor out and then switch it back again. :)

You must be good.....only 4 times.....I have to play with it about 10 times to get it where I want it....the mount SUCKS big time :thumbdown:

[BL]

I do believe that the Z30A required at least mid~high timing in order for it to run effectively.

I did setup a Z30A + 3300mAh 6s for a friend with 12deg timing, flight time about 10 mins with the battery voltage at 3.75~3.77V when landed.
He did just hovering and fff.
Guess that still 35% left for the battery capacity.

[michael88997]

does anybody know if the rcp 1100kv is a efficient as the z30? if it is I might pick up a Scorpion 90a esc and play around with the times i get

[xodarap1]

OK. I tested the Z30A with Mid timing on the HobbyWing 60A opto ESC, stock gear set, 20T OWB, 13T pinion, and 2 Kong Power 11.1V 2200 25C Li-Po's, RCP 500mm blades, short boom, T-Rex 600 landing gear, 1500mAh RX pack. The weather conditions were: 76F, wind: 15mph.

The throttle and pitch curves used for the testing with the Z30A were:

Throttle curve, normal mode:
0.0%, 11.0%, 32.0%, 59.0%, 68.0%, 83.0%, 100.0%

Throttle curve, S1 mode:
100.0%, 84.0%, 72.0%, 65.0%, 72.0%, 84.0%, 100.0%

Throttle curve, S2 mode:
100.0%, 87.0%, 76.0%, 74.0%, 76.0%, 87.0%, 100.0%

Pitch curve, normal mode:
48.0%, 48.5%, 49.5%, 50.0%, 65.0%, 83.0%, 100.0%

Pitch curve, S1 mode:
0.0%, 16.5%, 33.0%, 50.0%, 66.5%, 83.5%, 100.0%

Pitch curve, S2 mode:
0.0%, 15.0%, 31.5%, 50.0%, 68.0%, 85.0%, 100.0%



First test was done in normal mode only, doing a mixture of hovering, forward flight, figure 8's, banked turns and piros. The flight time was
7:25.

Second test was done with a mix of normal mode and S1 mode, doing hovering, fast forward flight, figure 8's, stall turns, piros and two large loops. The flight time was 6:50.

Third test was done in S1 mode only, doing normal and inverted hovering, fast forward flight, figure 8's, high stall turns, piros, two large loops, two snap rolls, two snap flips, two 30' hard punch outs (which were the altitude set ups for the loops), two tail slides. The flight time was 6:10.

Fourth test was done in S2 mode only, doing normal and inverted hovering, fast forward flight, figure 8's, high stall turns, piros, two large loops, two snap rolls, two snap flips, two 30' hard punch outs (which were the altitude set ups for the loops), two tail slides. The flight time was 5:20.

*There was enough power left after each flight test to keep the heli in the air for quite a bit longer but i landed in each case when there was a noticeable drop in power just as my lipo alarms started to come on (i have them set at 10.6 volts). The batteries were not hot in any of the test cases.

[mysticmead]

I like those flight times...Hmmmm... maybe the z30 is the way to go IF the timing is set for mid... now, if I could only find some info on the Gaui 75a ESC to see if the timing is something that can be set.. if so, then the z30 would be a good motor combo to grow with me... I had heard rumors that the Gaui 75a was made in the same factory as the Align 75a... does anyone have programming info for the Gaui 75a?

Oh yeah... what radio are you using that has the 7 point curves?

[xodarap1]

I will see what i can dig up for ya on the Gaui 75. I don't have that ESC but an extra set of eyes searching sometimes helps. ;)

The TX I use is the JR X9303. Still haven't sold the DX7 because I like having that extra DX7 battery in my flight box to run in the JR. :) I was thinking of selling the HBK2 with the AR7000 along with the DX7 as a package, but these darn helis have grown on me man.. Yes, it's true.. i'm a heli addict lol.. :)

[xodarap1]

So far, i've only found this:
http://www.elisanet.fi/mnentwig/webroot/GAUI_SAE12A/index.html :(

[michael88997]

so your getting better flight times on the z30 than i am on the z20... but then again i do constantly push the heli :)

[xodarap1]

Believe me, i'm pushing them equally when i fly them. What i'm finding is that if i push both the z20 and z30 during similar flights (with the gearing and curves i'm using on both heli setups) the flight times are not as different as i once thought. I think the reason is that the z30 doesn't like low timing mode and performs much better in mid timing mode. It also doesn't need to be run hard eating up the power all the time in high rpm S2 mode and curves to perform like the z20 does in S2 mode. I still think that curves and gearing play a huge roll in the flight times. I plan on fine tuning the settings even more to find the best combination with these motors for my flying style.

[michael88997]

yea well i run the z20 at a flat 100% tc and most of the time the head is bogged :)... how much is the esc you are running?

[xodarap1]

One ESC is a HobbyWing 60A and the other is an Align 75A. If you are running the z20A with 500mm blades and a 14T or 15T pinion and the head is constantly bogging, you should adjust your pitch curves so your not bogging it out. I don't think your gaining in performance if you are bogging it down anyway and it seems kind of pointless going over 90% throttle with the z20. Can anyone out there with a tach verify that there is much of a head speed gain over 90% with the z20? With the pitch curves adjusted just under the bog point at 90% flat, you can get some pretty powerful punch outs with the z20. Not full speed crazy fast 3D like the z30, but its sure no slouch.

[michael88997]

maybe i should buy a align 75a esc and try out that rcp motor and see how it does... cause i need more 3d but dont have money for 3000mah batteries lol. i was even thinking about trading it for a trex 500 so i can do more 3d but im just gonna try and get this good cause i like bigger helis :)

[michael88997]

can you do tictocs? i would like to see how much time they cut down

[xodarap1]

I haven't done them since I went to the 20T owb heheh. I think they might have contributed to the 19T slipping and failure i had early on. The hardest mashing I have done are 50' punch outs mixed with repeating tail slides and that is pretty good collective mashing (just in one direction only with the heli standing up almost vertical) pushing for about 30 to 40' at a shot, so it's very heavy stress and collective like a tictoc. Guess you would call them long punch tics, then long punch tocs heheh.. instead of the shorter tictocs. It seems to me that there is more power being gobbled up at a time in these longer pushes than shorter repeating bursts because the battery has a more constant drain and no time to bounce back. Unfortunately, i have no way to chart the power consumptions for both. What i'm really trying to determine is if i can get similar flight times out of the z30 doing the same maneuvers. Which maneuvers really aren't that important as long as what one motor does, the other does in the tests. The z20 can do tictocs, but they are slow ones. ;)