Metal Head Parts for HBFP

[C R Mudgeon]

Super Skids. (http://www.super-skids.com/)

Say Mudge... Don't forget to get an 11T pinion for that Slo-Max.

My newly built, but nowhere near as sexy, Feepie is about to take to the sky. I'm hoping I can finish all the household must-do's for the day early enough to get a hop ot two in.

I was thinking.....( when I do it gets expensive...) I use the 72mhz esky radio for this guy. I have a small 72 receiver. Maybe I'll get a brushless motor and a DD tail for this guy for the HH gyro project that should give me more than enough power and rpm for the M24 blades. And I can keep it 2 cell 7.4V. Hmmmmm:thinking

[Twmaster]

Careful with all that thinking man. You might strain your wallet!

;)

[C R Mudgeon]

Mr. Mudgie, that is one smart looking little chopper! Kinda like, the "pinstripe business-suit" version :) Loverly!

Pray tell me do, which are those skids she's standing on?


Thanks Much! :)
I looked up your lat lon. I ended up thinking of white sand beaches and sunshine all day.:smokin:

[wibble]

Thanks Much! :)
I looked up your lat lon. I ended up thinking of white sand beaches and sunshine all day.:smokin:

That's exactly what we got all year round. Just to make you feel better, I'd give anything to see the four seasons again :lol:. Let me know when you're coming and we'll set you up the best we can :thumbup:

Thanks to Twmaster and yourself for the info on the skids. As if I neeeeeded it? $$$$$$$$$ more :oops:

[kodak_jack]

Also the GWS Center hub needs the GWS adapter (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHHD7&P=Z). It will not work with the ESKY part.

I'll order it the next time.

For a flight review it seems more stable. But now it seems like there is less head speed. The added rotational weight may be a contribution to this.

Next up for project Metal Head:Bang is a Slo Max motor and a ESKY HH Gyro
What exactly does the adapter do? I've read many posts about the GWS parts and have never heard of that adapter being a necessary part - I've never even heard mention of it!
So, how much DO you have to spend on a <$100 heli to make it fly half-way decent?!!!:YeaBaby:

[wibble]

Jack, if you can fly it properly you don't need to spend a single dime! :thinking

Take a look! :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEFksW5hmSg

[C R Mudgeon]

What exactly does the adapter do? I've read many posts about the GWS parts and have never heard of that adapter being a necessary part - I've never even heard mention of it!
So, how much DO you have to spend on a <$100 heli to make it fly half-way decent?!!!

Jack
The adapter, which is the GWS term for the part is what others call a timing fork. It keeps the links that connect to the fly bar moving correctly. The esky part does not fit on the GWS hub ( suprise suprise ) they have diffrent engagement pins. I'll show the show parts in an attachments. You can see the placement between the swash plate and flybar holder.

Also, you can fly the HBFP out of the box. But there is always upgrade fever that hits. There is no known cure for this disease!

[C R Mudgeon]

Take a look! :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEFksW5hmSg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEFksW5hmSg)

Dude!

That HBFP video is off the wall! :noteworthy

[Twmaster]

Um. Wow. Furious little bugger. Neat video.

[kodak_jack]

Jack

you can fly the HBFP out of the box. But there is always upgrade fever that hits. There is no known cure for this disease!
No, YOU can fly the darned thing out of the box, I'm still struggling trying to hover it!!!! If there's a trick to it, I sure haven't found it. As I've said before, I'm in constant rebuild mode.:mad:

[C R Mudgeon]

Jack,

First of all relax! That is the key. It will take time took me a 3 weeks to hover a battery with the HBFP. It's twichier than a chipmunk after getting into espresso beans!

Second find the biggest room that you can. I started in a room that is 10x10x15 usable space and I was banging off the walls.

Balance the blades and check the tracking on the blades. Look under tracking in the wiki (http://www.helifreak.com/Simvastatin Pure - Batch Release).
use a hair dryer to set the curve of the blades for the tracking if you need it. Make it as smooth as possible

Make sure that both blades are tighened equally. Just tight enough to let them swing.

make sure all the links are on the balls correctly.

Get rid of the flybar weights! They cause too much control lag. you will get into pilot induced ocillation with them.

Set the paddles to about 20 deg positive pitch make sure that both paddles are equal. ( This is the biggest mod to make hover eaiser. But it will make foward flight sucky Since you are just intrested in hovering to begin set the paddle pitch )

Make sure that the swash is perpendicular to the mast use a right angle protractor to eyeball this. Then set the trim on the tx to the mid position in elevator and aleiron. put the heli on the floor and push the throttle slowly untill it takes off. If it moves back toward you trim the links to go forward. Then trim for left and right. Do one direction at a time ( keep doing that untill it lifts off straight up. Remenber slowly with that throttle!

Check the tail rotor is straight and in a horizontal plane to the pod.

The thing is under powered. If you have a lot of bling or traing gear ( you don't need it ) or a big battery on it reconcider it. The only mod that will really work for you is the super skids or the clones. The stock landing gear is JUNK! and it WILL break Super skids are heavier but the heli will bounce.


Then try to hover a little. My first hovers were 5 or 10 sec or so. When losing control go off the throttle to minimise damage to the head and anything it strikes. Go small get the feel of it then go longer. Rember this bird is real squirrley. when you master this you will master any other bird EASY.

To make things easier get a bigger room or a garage. One other thing the rotor wash in a smaller room will set up currents that will knock you around don't be suprised by this. Go a little higher ( slowly! ) to get out of the wash. Remember small movements on the sticks. This is NOT a Lama where you have to bang the sticks around to move the thing. Small movements on the sticks will move you a long way. Take small hops first!

Don't worry you'll get it. If I can do it ANYBODY can!
Took me 5 links, a rotor head and a blade set to learn!

[wibble]

Jack, I bet you or I could fly a nice little Cessna model right out of the box first time. It's just not that difficult if you got any common-sense. Landings might be a bit tricky but we'd be able to do it!

Helicopters, any helicopters are the most difficult flying machines that man has ever had to master, geez just look at all that engine and bodywork etc etc which is hanging underneath the blades in order for it to go airborne. It's a friggin miracle if you ask me! Hang in there and one day we'll be able to join the ranks of other great miracle makers like Moses and Co. ;):)

[Twmaster]

Jack...

Perhaps a different approach to learning to fly.

Please have a look at RADD's School of Rotary Flight. (http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-index.html)

Good luck.

[kodak_jack]

Jack,

First of all relax! That is the key. It will take time took me a 3 weeks to hover a battery with the HBFP. It's twichier than a chipmunk after getting into espresso beans!

Second find the biggest room that you can. I started in a room that is 10x10x15 usable space and I was banging off the walls.

Balance the blades and check the tracking on the blades. Look under tracking in the wiki (http://www.helifreak.com/Simvastatin%20Pure%20-%20Batch%20Release).
use a hair dryer to set the curve of the blades for the tracking if you need it. Make it as smooth as possible

Make sure that both blades are tighened equally. Just tight enough to let them swing.

make sure all the links are on the balls correctly.

Get rid of the flybar weights! They cause too much control lag. you will get into pilot induced ocillation with them.

Set the paddles to about 20 deg positive pitch make sure that both paddles are equal. ( This is the biggest mod to make hover eaiser. But it will make foward flight sucky Since you are just intrested in hovering to begin set the paddle pitch )

Make sure that the swash is perpendicular to the mast use a right angle protractor to eyeball this. Then set the trim on the tx to the mid position in elevator and aleiron. put the heli on the floor and push the throttle slowly untill it takes off. If it moves back toward you trim the links to go forward. Then trim for left and right. Do one direction at a time ( keep doing that untill it lifts off straight up. Remenber slowly with that throttle!

Check the tail rotor is straight and in a horizontal plane to the pod.

The thing is under powered. If you have a lot of bling or traing gear ( you don't need it ) or a big battery on it reconcider it. The only mod that will really work for you is the super skids or the clones. The stock landing gear is JUNK! and it WILL break Super skids are heavier but the heli will bounce.


Then try to hover a little. My first hovers were 5 or 10 sec or so. When losing control go off the throttle to minimise damage to the head and anything it strikes. Go small get the feel of it then go longer. Rember this bird is real squirrley. when you master this you will master any other bird EASY.

To make things easier get a bigger room or a garage. One other thing the rotor wash in a smaller room will set up currents that will knock you around don't be suprised by this. Go a little higher ( slowly! ) to get out of the wash. Remember small movements on the sticks. This is NOT a Lama where you have to bang the sticks around to move the thing. Small movements on the sticks will move you a long way. Take small hops first!

Don't worry you'll get it. If I can do it ANYBODY can!
Took me 5 links, a rotor head and a blade set to learn!
Great advice. It's contradictory, though to what I've always read before. I've seen over and over again not to adjust the trims based on what the heli does on the ground. That being the case, it wants to go off in just about every direction there is. I really can't lift off slow or it does the usual zing to the left - big time! I'm practicing when I can. I know, too many excuses, but it's a very busy time of year. I've got a 1/2 acre lot and cut grass every third day, etc. I bought this thing thinking I could learn indoors during the Winter - no way. I also bought it to fly in my big backyard. I sure hope that works out and it doesn't prove to be too light and flimsy. It seems there's always a breeze, even in the evening.
I have two Lipo's coming. I may just end up using both in the heli at the same time for easier balance. The heavy rubber bands that come with the Super Skids are also slack with only one Lipo in there, so, two may be better in many ways. When one runs low, I'll just switch connectors.;)
Speaking of metal head parts, I've abandoned my metal coat hanger flybar idea. I think I went too big in diameter and it weighed too much. I'm back to CF flybar and, because I forgot to put them on, no flybar weights. My control frame is also flipped to get at the set screws.

[C R Mudgeon]

Jack,

One upgrade you should concider that will save you cash in the long run is use the metal flybar and the paddles from the Honey Bee CP2. The bar is tougher and will not snap in a crash and is pretty cheap.

[C R Mudgeon]

The heavy rubber bands that come with the Super Skids are also slack with only one Lipo in there, so, two may be better in many ways. When one runs low, I'll just switch connectors.;)


Jack,
Do you have the battery under the Fp's receiver. The CG will balance better if you have it up there. Also, tie down the battery better than that rubber band. Get a velcro "wire tie", a strip of velcro with hook on one side loops on the other. They sell them at lowes or home despot in the hardware section. This will keep the battery from moving and throwing off the balance.

If it zooms off to the left right off trim the links to move right then trim out the last bit with the tx trim. Taking off will give some movement to the left but if it just zoom left it needs a trim.

Wind will blow the thing into the next yard with out a doubt. It may have the power to overcome it but you will be chasing it for sure.

Too heavy will not make it more stable, it will make it less stable as I found with the metal parts. Mine is pretty heavy and is getting to be a handful to fly. That's why I'm going for a bigger motor on it.

I just got flying my TREX for the first time last week. I'm on 6 flights with no crashes and it is SOOOO much easier that the HBFP and in a breeze it is OK. Flying the HBFP was instrumental in me getting that bird in the air.

The reason I have HBFP is that it's the biggest heli I can fly in house without my wife giving me the hairy eyeball!

[kodak_jack]

Hey, fellow old guy, the metal parts may be biting your backside just like I was talking about with the Lipo. I think you need to consider vertical center of gravity just as much as nose to tail. You just made the top heavy and it will want to flop over on the rotor. I think going from a NiMH to a Lipo was close to the same thing. Add the metal flybar and you're always ready to flip it on its head. That is why I like the Super Skids. Many guys think they weigh too much, but I think it helps with less than soft landings as well as helping with that vertical center of gravity.

[C R Mudgeon]

The parts are here! The parts are here!

Ok got the parts for Phase 2 of project metal head:Bang.

Esky HH gyro
Ammo brushless motor
M24 Blades
electrifly tail motor esc
dynam brushless esc
DD tail ( maybe... got the parts will put them on if it needs it )


I'll have picts this weekend and get working on it ( if I can clear the honey do's list )

[kodak_jack]

My battery is under the 4-in-1.
Yesterday I had broken an arm off the swash and the frame where the boom and back support for the Super Skids go.:mad: I had a new swash and it was a real treat getting the old one off and new one on because there must have been a burr where the thru hole is for the teeter tauter. I straightened that out today when I had to take the new swash off again because the two halves were separating, thank you very much. I used two small zip ties to try to hold the frame back together at the boom. I also mixed up some Miller-Stevenson 24 hour epoxy to try to help that situation. While it was mixed, I put the broken swash arm back on and re-attached a broken ball on a rotor head.
I keep seeing and reading that you can slowly spool up and lift off and hover a couple of inches or at least under a foot or two. I just don't see that with this machine. If I were to come up slowly, it zings off hard to the left. I had Nuttcaze over the house in February and he thought the swash was level. I don't know what else to do with it.

[C R Mudgeon]

Sorry to hear that you are breaking up parts Jack. On those slow lift off thinks hops. Try giving it a small punch of right on lift off. If it off the ground and it wants to still go left trim right on the links.

I've had a couple of set backs here tonight. My AXE cp project the tail did not seems to work well with the gyro. Maybe a I should have used the DD tail. But it crashed and bent up the micro heli head pretty good. I'm going to have to take stock of that project I may have to go back to plastic parts for that head if the metal ones are so fragile. I may just call it quits on the AXE.

I put the TREX in idle up for the first time and it nicked the ground. Bent a bunch of stuff had spares for most of the stuff I bent. Have to go to the LHS to get bearings.

So I'm not going to mess with the HBFP for a couple of days just because it is the only thing flying! And because I looked at the DD motor and It would not fit easy into the tail mount. I ordered the the fiber frame and finset (http://www.heli-fever.com/index.php?cPath=47) from heli fever.The finset has the motor mounts right in it and I thought that stiffer frame would compliment this project. I did not go for the belt drive as a FP would not always have the motor RPM up to move the tail like a CP would.

[kodak_jack]

I was wondering about that bare frame. It is a frame and nothing more. Would all of the FP stuff fit it okay? Would you put a Slo_Max in it for more power?
For some reason, Tower was shipping part of my order from Illinois and part from Reno. I got conformation that both parts were shipped yesterday. I'm getting the DD tail stuff and the solid center hub and rotor head. My next order may be the Slo-Max and gray blades.

[C R Mudgeon]

I was wondering about that bare frame. It is a frame and nothing more. Would all of the FP stuff fit it okay? Would you put a Slo_Max in it for more power?
For some reason, Tower was shipping part of my order from Illinois and part from Reno. I got conformation that both parts were shipped yesterday. I'm getting the DD tail stuff and the solid center hub and rotor head. My next order may be the Slo-Max and gray blades.

I think the parts would fit ok there is another picture (http://www.heli-fever.com/product_info.php?cPath=47&products_id=688)of the frame sporting a bunch of FP internals. The slo max is another story. I think that is going to need a slo max or brushless to get it in the air. It's going to be pretty porkey for a little FP. I have the gws gray blades ( you want em give me a pm an we'll talk ) not sure you'll like them I tried them on a stock fp they did not have as much curve and they are more flexy. They went around and did not lift. They may need more head speed to lift but I'm still on the stock motor. The brushess set up is still in the box I'm going to wait for the frame to come in.

Don't forget the "adaptor (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHHD7&P=Z)" or link fork with that soild center hub....I forgot it:arggg:

[Twmaster]

Yes you need a bigger pinion if you want to use the gray GWS blades as they do not have as much lift as the stock black blades. the 11 tooth pinion from an HPI Micro RS4 will work.

I, on purpose, left the stock pinion on my Feepie with the gray blades to allow me to trim and get used to holding position (AKA the RADDs method) before trying to lift off.

[kodak_jack]

[quote=C R Mudgeon;650562]

Don't forget the "adaptor (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHHD7&P=Z)" or link fork with that soild center hub....I forgot it:arggg:[/quote

If there is one thing you can count on in this and any other forum, it's contradiction. One person says you need the adapter and another says what are you talking about, I don't even know what the adapter is! I thought the teeter tauter worked with the GWS hub? Now, I guess I'll have to put in another order!!:mad: In post #32, your pic shows the links between the usual guide. Is that because you don't have the GWS hub on yet?
Some people like and insist on the gray blades and some don't. If you're flying the stock motor, what are you using for blades? You have the metal stiffener on your GWS head, right? Did that do anything for you? If they flex too much, why are so many people using them? The whole thing with pinions, blades and head speed is crazy.:DOH

[kodak_jack]

I ordered my parts from Tower Hobbies Friday evening and they arrived today. They shipped from two different warehouses and I didn't expect them for a while. Great service and shipping!
The DD tail was a piece of cake - no brainer. I installed the prop #4530 that is bigger than the two orange ones that come with the adapter. I used the same small heat sink that I bought for the stock tail motor. I may buy a bigger one or double/triple up on the stock heat sinks. My motor did not come with any cap, black or gray. I haven't CA'd the new housing in place. Some guys leave it loose so it doesn't get hurt in a crash. Some guys end up switching to something else. I may go even bigger with the tail prop if needed.
I also installed the new solid GWS center hub. It works fine with the old see saw, I didn't use the adapter that we discussed above (?). I forgot to buy the metal stiffener and had to slightly modify the fiber stiffener that is from the stock head.
My next parts will likely be a couple I forgot, the Slo-Max, an EFlite battery support for my smaller Lipo's and maybe a new canopy.:)