heliartist 500d and v2

[viper0173]

how in the heck am i supposed to get the v2 in the fuse. the tail servo keeps stopping it from going in and sitting the right way. any suggestions would be great . this is my first scale and i need some help please thank you

[BlackTitanium]

If you're using a Futaba 9650, it is too big.
You'll need too install a Futaba 9257, JR 3400G, or similar size servo.

Others have managed to use the 9650, with some creative methods.
Check the 500E and 500D build threads in this forum.

For example:
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37999&d=1202537639

[viper0173]

ive got the jr3400. thats a nice rig u have did u buy that or fab it what servo is that

[BlackTitanium]

That is a mod that Gra55h0pper fabricated for his build.

See line #77, on the TRex 450 SE nV2 to 500E Makeover... thread.
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=54979&page=8

[JEB123]

Hey Black Titanium, question, I'm building my first scale bird as well, the Heliartist N23CP. I see above you say that the S9650 is too big to fit into the tail boom, to use the S9257. I'm looking at a Tower Hobbies catalog and they show the exact same dimensions for the two servos. Is this a typo? Now i'm confused. Which is the right servo to purchase? I like the rig with the 9650 vertically mounted, very clever, but is that really necessary? It looks like that's the only case that can be mounted in this fashion. Will the 9257 fit into the boom straight away without a mod? Help!

[BlackTitanium]

I could have sworn it was smaller.
I mounted the 9257 without any modifications, except that the orientation puts the rod at an angle vs straight.

[darrentoogood991]

Hi Jeb,

Just checked my 9257 against the 9650 i have in my trex 450. Its the same size case but my 9257 only has 1 set of mounting brackets. The brackets with the 2 holes are there but the vertical brackets are missing (if that makes sense). This would mean that the mod could not be done on my 9257.

[JEB123]

Hi BlackTitanium and darrentoogood991, thanks for your replies. Darren, that makes exact sense, and that was my concern, if they are the same size, then only the 9650 can be used for the vertical mount mod since it has the vertical mount ears, but BlackTitanium, why would it then be necessary to modify the 9650 if the two are the same size and the 9257 fits? Logically then the 9650 should fit too. If I understand correctly, you are saying you mounted the 9257 as per the manual, but twisted it to be directly below the boom which puts the rod at an angle, right? If so, isn't the mod a better way to keep the linkage straight? Also,doesn't the mod hit the bottom of the fuse? Looks to me like it hangs pretty low there (not that this is a bad thing lol).Still confused! Hey BT, nice job on those helis, hope mine comes out as nice. Does anyone have pictures of other tail servo mounting methods for scale retrofit?
Jorge

[BlackTitanium]

Hi Jeb,

I must have been thinking of my Jet Ranger fuselage when I made the comment about the servo sizes. Sorry about the confusion, my mistake. :DOH

Anyway, it doesn't seem to make any difference that the rod is at a slight angle.
As long as it's not binding, and it is not at an extreme angle, it works fine.

Normally the rudder servo would sit up high, and does not allow you to position the frame far enough back into the fuselage. So positioning the servo lower, which puts the rod at and angle, allows the frame to fit further back into the fuselage.

The point of mounting the frame as far back into the fuselage as possible, is to achieve the best center of gravity. The further forward that you mount the frame into the fuselage, the heavier he tail gets, and the more weight you'll have to add in the nose to balance the CG.

[JEB123]

I see. Thanks very much for your response, I appreeciate your help. I'll just mount it like you did then. What's the main difference between the two servos? I see the 9650 is about half the price of the 9257? I know you always get what you pay for, but isn't the 9650 as good?

[BlackTitanium]

The 9257 is faster, .08 sec vs .12 sec.
The 9257 only works on 4.8V

The 9650 works on 6.0V and 4.8V.

[JEB123]

Right, I saw the specs, the 9257 is faster but only has 27 oz-in of torque @4.8V, where the 9650 has 50 oz-in @ 4.8V. I think in this case 27oz is plenty to push a tail linkage, I'm gonna guess speed is more critical to not defeat the gyro speed?

[viper0173]

thanks for the info guys just onw more ? i have a v2 what pinion should i run. i was running an 11 tooth but put in a 12. till i crashed . no biggy minor damage all back to gether now i put in a 13 tooth and was hovering and only got 3.5 min out of my bat . befor i installed the hughes fuse i was gettin 7-10 min depending on bat although i was running an 11 tooth at that point. i know i will loose a liitle run time but 3-5 min. seems strange to me. any way what is a good pinion to use to keep up my run times and still maintain good headspeed for the extra weight of the hughes? any help would be great . by the way here she is in all her glory. this was pre crash.
http://www.alliedaviators.com/images/Viper01.jpg
http://www.lmwarner.com/heli/Viper03.jpg:clappp

[JEB123]

Very pretty. I always loved the 500 best. I almost have mine done, I have the blue one, the Heliartist N23CP. Looking forward to the response about the pinion, I had the same question. Hey BT, what do you have in your Hughes and what kind of performance do you get?

[JEB123]

Nice flying field too.

[BlackTitanium]

I fly pretty aggressive fast forward flight, do pirouettes, hard bank turns, fast climb outs and descends.
With the Jet Ranger, I also do loops and rolls.
It get 5 minutes flight time on FlightPower EVO25 2170 mah 3S
Hughes 500D = CC Phoenix 35 ESC and NeuMotors 1107/2Y with 15T pinion - TC 100-INH-92-INH-100
Jet Ranger = CC Phoenix 35 and Align 430XL with 13T pinion - TC 100-INH-92-INH-100

It get 4.5 minutes flight time on FlightPower EVO25 2170 mah 3S.
These both have retract systems and are heavier.
Airwolf = Kontronik Jazz 40-6-18 and NeuMotors 1107/1.5Y with 11T pinion - TC Flat 92%
Augusta = CC Phoenix 35 ESC and NeuMotors 1107/2Y with 15T pinion - TC 100-INH-92-INH-100

All have full paddle weights and 335mm carbon fiber main rotor blades.

[JEB123]

Thanks for the quick reply BT. You always seem to be waiting around for when you're needed! There you go Viper, the voice of experience. Think I'll try the 15T too.

[iwasaseabee]

I could have sworn it was smaller.
I mounted the 9257 without any modifications, except that the orientation puts the rod at an angle vs straight.

Can you post a pic of your servo instalation/orientation? I'm putting my 500d together and kind of stuck trying to get the servo mounted. I'm also mounting a 9257.

[viper0173]

thanks bt great info. a 15 tooth pinion wow thats big but i guess its needed. i have all stock v2 esc ant the 430xl motor. i ran a 12 tooth today it is good for general flying not to aggresive. get good runtime got 7 min out of my thunderpower 2100 15c 3s bat. got a little longer out of my smc2100 25c 3s bat. i did notice when i punched full throtttle it was very sluggish in its ascent and i got a severe tail drift for lack of a better term. i adjusted my gyro gain and it helped a little. will the 13 t pinion help with that . i assume it will . i want to keep my run times as high as possible but i dont want to sacrifice performance either. thats why i crached the first time i had do head speed and couldnt pull up when i got caught in the wind. im doing very good considering i have only started this heli thing 2 months ago. the my felloe enthusiasts say im doing wxtremely well in such a shrt time. i love flying scale it is awesome. the field is under construction. we just acquired the land so its a work in progress. any more tips bt would be great especially for the stock mechanics of the v2.

[BlackTitanium]

Viper,
When you change the pinion, as you discovered, you'll have also have to adjust your gyro sensitivity.
13T will give you more tail authority and climb out power, it is the maximum size pinion that you can use with the 430XL. You'll probably lose a little more flight time though.

Note that the 15T, I use, is on a lower KV motor, and is the maximum pinion for that size motor.

[JEB123]

BT, I'll be running a scorpion HK2221-8. What pinion should I try in this case to have power and not kill my flight time? I have the 12T in there now. Should this work with a high performance motor like that?

[BlackTitanium]

BT, I'll be running a scorpion HK2221-8. What pinion should I try in this case to have power and not kill my flight time? I have the 12T in there now. Should this work with a high performance motor like that?

That's a 3595 KV/RPM motor, it is slower than the stock V2 430XL (3700 KV).

So try a 13T and a 14T at the max.

[JEB123]

That's true, you're right, but the 430XL is a 35Amp 350Watt motor where the Scorpion -8 is 45Amps and 475Watts! This means lower RPM's but a lot more battery sucking torque! That's why I got it, thinking it would lift the weight of the fuselage better. That's also why I ask about the pinion. Also BT, shouldn't I be able to swing longer main blades?

[BlackTitanium]

Can you post a pic of your servo instalation/orientation? I'm putting my 500d together and kind of stuck trying to get the servo mounted. I'm also mounting a 9257.

Apparently I'm loosing my mind, or at least track of what servo I put in which model! :arggg:

I do not have a 9257 or 9650 on my 500D build.
I just took it apart, to take photos for you, and discovered that I have a Futaba S3154 installed on the tail rudder.

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47533&stc=1&d=1210265928

[BlackTitanium]

That's true, you're right, but the 430XL is a 35Amp 350Watt motor where the Scorpion -8 is 45Amps and 475Watts! This means lower RPM's but a lot more battery sucking torque! That's why I got it, thinking it would lift the weight of the fuselage better. That's also why I ask about the pinion. Also BT, shouldn't I be able to swing longer main blades?

I use 335mm Carbon Fiber rotors on all of my scale helis.
Longer blades makes it more stable and gets more lift.
I don't know what the max length is for the 450.