Thunder Tiger E550 Raptor vs Gaui Hurricane 550

[rotorhead58d]

this heli is soooooo easy to build. i have a trex 450, gaui 200, cx2, and built another 500 size heli. this thing just goes together so nice. everything fits, and no notchy bearings. i can see why other pilots recommend this heli for a beginner. E550 rocks! :Bang

[helicraze]

Its is pretty nice. I am considering retiring my E550 and getting a replacing it with a logo 600 now.

I am learning inverted so after that I may get the logo.
Its a good heli but I find it can lack power, probably my collective management isn't as good as it could be.
Also my motor is getting sqeely bearings!!!

[rotorhead58d]

this thing is bigger than i thought. no spooling it up in my puney back yard. i hope to become a better pilot with this heli.

[helicraze]

you will. The E550 helped me a great deal

[rotorhead58d]

did you use the canopy clip to attach it to the front skids underneath?

[3D Dave]

Vinger, helicraze, someone, HELP!!!

I have a very important question...

I decided to shorten the wires on the TT Ripper motor for my E550 before I put connectors on. I had NO IDEA the wire they use would NOT melt solder. After my 40W iron wouldn't cut it I took out my 150/230 watt gun and tried it. Still wouldn't work. After scraping the wire strands with a razor blade to see if there was some kind of coating on them I was able to get a "small" amount of solder to adhere. Not as much as I'd like though.

I'm using the standard bullet connectors that TT supplied with the motor. Trying to remedy the situation, I made sure there was plenty of solder in the connector and I heated both as hot as they'd get with the gun and attached them. Then, I put a LONG piece of shrink tube over the connector for added insurance.

My problem is I'm nervous that the connector(s) might overheat and separate in flight. Is this something I should worry about? If so I don't know what I should do short of getting another motor (sending mine to ACE) or finding someone with an industial power soldering gun.

I had NO PROBLEM with the heavy guage wire on the Castle HV85 so it's just the TT motor leads I'm concerned about.

What do you think?

I wish I had known how hard the motor wires were to solder. I would have just left them alone since they were pre-tinned.

Dave D. :(

[helicraze]

How short did you shorten it? That method you used may be fine, did the solder stick or didn't you check? The solder is only for electrical connection and shouldn't really be relied upon for mechinical connection anyway.

Maybe you solder is not good, you need 60/40 solder and maybe some good flux (liquid in a tube) if its hard o solder.

I didn't shorten mine, i found them to be the perfect length, motor wires went out on the right side of the frame and followed around to the left where the esc was.

[GatoVolador]

Yikes! Yeah, you should never shorten your motor wires as they come pre-tinned from the factory and you may risk cutting-off the pre-tinned section of the wires if you cut it. No way would I trust any less-than-optimal solder joint either. The problem you're going to have now is making sure each individual wire has a solid connection to the bullet connector. If all the individual strands aren't making full contact then your motor is not going to run right and it might burn up. I hate to say it, but if it were me I'd probably call it a loss and get a new motor or send it back to the manufacturer for them to re-tin the wires and test the motor (not sure how much money or time that would be though...)

[rotorhead58d]

dave...at this point i would suggest you take that motor to someone who has good soldering skills. no offense, but you could fry your motor. those wires coming out of the motor should never be shortened. get with someone who knows electric heli's and have them look at it.

[ghtracey]

Now I've seen it all. A recommendation to return a motor because he cut the tinned wire off? Wow! Tinned wire is nothing more than wire that has been pre-coated in solder. Cutting it off is not something that you "risk". It makes no difference to the electrons whether a wire is tinned or not. Dave, there is no such thing as wire that won't take solder. If it won't, its something you're doing.

First and most important, are you using Flux? I'm not talking about flux core solder, I mean actual flux that you brush on. When it gets hot it removes anything on the wire you are soldering and helps transfer heat and helps the solder flow. Second, and almost as important, make sure you are using resin core solder, not acid core.

Tinning a wire is easy:
- heat your iron and clean the tip (once its hot, dip the tip into the solder then wipe it off on a wet sponge)
- put flux on the bared wire
- touch the solder to the tip of the iron (solder on the tip makes it conduct heat better)
- put the iron to the wire, the flux will boil and smoke
- touch the solder to the wire (not the iron)


Now your wire is tinned. If you add too much solder the tinning will "wick" up the wire under the insulation, try to avoid this.

The most common problem people have with soldering is that they don't use flux. Any time you heat something with a soldering iron, put flux on it. Especially if you are reheating solder (soldering tinned wires to a connector is a prime example).

I just did my mini titan connectors on Thursday. My $20 60W adjustable soldering iron from The Source (Radioshack I guess) will heat a Deans Ultra connector terminal hot enough to solder a battery lead to in about 4 seconds. Remember the tips from the tinning instructions (clean the tip, put flux on the piece you are heating, and put fresh solder on the tip to help it conduct heat), once the connector is hot put the tinned wire (with a bit of flux on it) on to the lead, put the iron on the wire to hold it, the touch the solder to the joint of the wire and connector. The resulting joint will look dirty, with black flux residue on it but a quick wipe with denatured or rubbing alcohol will clean it up.

As Rotorhead said, if you can't do it, ask someone who can. Soldering is a bit of an art form, and you really should practice on something unimportant. During my time in the Navy, soldering was a 3 week section of my electronics training. 3 weeks of full days!!!

I have to strongly disagree with Rotorhead about one thing though. Shortening the motor leads means absolutely nothing and will never harm your motor. The leads carry current to the motor, they don't tune it or anything, they have no capacitance or inductance to speak of. Chop them up however you want.

[GatoVolador]

No need to unload on me Graham! What happened to the "mutal respect" part of HeliFreak? The motor winding wires are coated with varnish typically which makes them incapapable of accepting solder unless the varnish coating is removed to expose the bare copper. Is it possible to fix? Absolutely yes. But for the average Joe that is not sure whether he has it right or not that's why I reccommended possibly returning the motor for servcing or getting another one just to make sure. At least I won't be the one to tell him everything is fine and see that his $1000+ bird drops out of the sky because of a $100 motor...

[rotorhead58d]

dave, watch the finless videos. heli skills and set up 101. under that thread, there will be alot of useful info. watch soldering bullet motor connectors 101. this should help you

[rotorhead58d]

anyone know where i can get servo arms to fit JR servos in a E550? 27mm apart. 13.5 from the center.

[GatoVolador]

I have 8717s and used the white wheel that came with the servos. For the elevator servo, I went at the wheel with a Dremel to get it to not bind on anything but it wasn't bad...

[rotorhead58d]

any idea where i could get my hands on a set? i looked everywhere.

[3D Dave]

Thanks guys. I didn't mean to start a conflict.

I have actually done quite a bit of soldering over the last 20 years and always tin my wires. It's just that:

A) The jobs were usually smaller (except when I made my own 6 cell sub C racing packs)
B) I've ALWAYS just used rosin core solder (didn't think I really needed separate flux)
C) Never soldered to coated wire strands like these.

The main problem I have now is the leads are VERY short (less than 2") and I had scraped away about 30% of the coating at the ends and got solder to adhere at those spots. If I were to fix this right, I think I'd have a HECK of a time getting all the solder (and the rest of the coating) off with such short wires. I could try it but I don't have a good feeling about the results.

Feeling discouraged, I ended up ordering a Tonic-X Z30A 1110 motor today. I could end up waiting who knows how long to get this TT one fixed/replaced if I send it in. Now I might be stuck with a brand new motor I can't use.

I think this should be in the "IMPORTANT BUILDING TIPS" for all brushless motors.

Time to start building the head and try to forget about my dumb mistake. :arggg:

Dave


ps, All my bigger irons' tips have kind of deteriorated over time so I should probably get new tips (along with some FLUX)

[ghtracey]

I wasn't unloading. Sorry if it seemed that way. I just disagree completely. Sending the motor back is a waste of time and money. Yes winding wires are covered in varnish. The motor leads aren't winding wires, and they are not varnished. Winding wires are also uninsulated. The motor leads are plain old silicon insulated wire and can easily be soldered. I just did some on a Ripper motor.

[rotorhead58d]

guess which one is the E550...50944

[rotorhead58d]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71nrXI8rfJw&feature=related

check out this E550 video. looks like 6s will work just fine.:lol:

[3D Dave]

WELL GUYS............

The maiden was yesterday (Monday) :YeaBaby: and I flew the last of 3 packs as my local heli mentor had to trim everything out and set the headspeed for me. It's about 1740 on a Tonic-X Z-30A 1110kv motor which might be a little low but I'm still a "noob" so I'm fine with it for now.

Today I flew all 3 packs and it was AWESOME!!!!! :banana

I'd like to thank EVERYONE for their input on this. It's only my 3rd heli (1st kit) to a Blade CX-2 and then last Jan. a mini-Titan.

Now I just have to tweak the setup to get the most I can out of the Tonic-X Z30A 1110 motor and 6s 5300mAh packs. I've been getting about 7-8 minutes but the packs are brand new. I'm also using some 550 MS composite blades http://www.helidirect.com/product_info.php?cPath=117_120_461&products_id=6670. I'm not sure if they are fiberglass of CF.

Anyway, thanks again to all!!!!

Dave D.

[Tim Tompkins]

Looks like the plan came together! This helicopter will take you as far as you can imagine. Soon you will get some real confidence and explore new stuff with ease. Good luck! TimT

[rotorhead58d]

my hs in normal was 1760, idle 1 1940, idle 2 2040. stock everything. love it. :thumbup:

[Vinger]

Congrats 3DD, NOW the fun starts!!!!

[3D Dave]

Thanks Tim, rotorhead, Vinger.

Here's a few pics...



Dave D.

[rotorhead58d]

dave, always nice to see grass stains on the tail blades. nice job. :thumbup: