Strange problem...

[MaxKool]

Ok Ill give all the info and then you guys the heli gods can tell me where I can start to look.

Recently I replaced the junk tail servo with a 3400g. Had no problems aside from the mounting wasnt Ideal. I had no issues with flying it I just couldnt get the tail setup as perfectly as I wanted.
My rex boom mounts showed up the other day so I installed the servo on them, shortened the rod and proceded to set it up. While I was in the LHS they also had the new Eflite CF blades in stock so I couldnt resist and grabbed a set.

I came home and went downstairs to hover it and get the tail dialed in and see how the blades were. I normaly can run a pack and then as soon as it is dead put another in and continue flying. Today when I did my usual I got about 1 min into the next pack and the gyro cut out. I couldnt belive it. I saw the red light go out and I landed asap. Before I could walk over to the heli I heard the Beep saying it had rearmed. So I was like huh... ok lets try again. I proceded to hover for another min or less and the heli lost power, it didnt die outright it just slowed the head spead RIGHT down and landed basicly. It wouldnt increase power again unless I completely reset the heli and start again. I tried again doing the same thing over and again, same thing. So I walk over and the ESC is FREAKING HOT. Like burn my skinn off hot. I have never had the ESC heat problem untill today. I even was flying without a canopy so I could access everything easily and it was freakin scortching. So I had a smoke and let it sit for 5 minz. I cheked it and it was no warmer than it used to get so I figured ide try again. I got mabye 30 seconds of flight and the heli repeated its power loss and I cheked the ESC again. Stupidly hot....


What the hell man, Im starting to think I should have just gotten a Trex if im gonna have to replace all the stock JUNK on this heli... any suggestions?

[SeaComms]

If you have a lot of input to the tail to keep it straight, such as vibrations shaking the gyro, it will be constantly operating the tail servo. From what I have heard the digital servos can draw anything up to 2 amps. The inbuilt BEC in the stock ESC is rated at 3 amps, but being a linear designed circuit it results in plenty of heat at higher currents. I would say the extra draw is loading it up then it shuts down from over heating.

You could try putting the stock servo back in for a test hover, but I would recommend an external switching BEC. I put in a Hobbywing 3amp constant 5amp peak. Cost me like $15 off ebay delivered. I didnt actually need it, was just insurance.

[carlo_the_wonder_frog]

Make sure that the motor pinion is not pressed against the gear too tightly ( gear mesh). Also check everything else that is electronic and make sure everything is not binding. Sounds like the ESC is going into thermal shutdown from having to supply alot of current due to something not spinning /moving freely.

[MaxKool]

hmm yah mabye ill try some more setup, as the heli is all over the place now. I only did a quick job on the tail. Seemed ok, but HH mode can be deciving... If I can get it back to how it was mabye it will be ok till i can grab a BEC. Im just not a big fan of electronics all stuck all over the frame hehehe

[sokal]

thier has been esc problems some have just bought a better one and some returned the esc to horizon. my charger took a poop on me and didnt really charge batt properly charger would say done but bats would last like a min or so and my esc would get hot
so it may be the stock charger not charging batts. so if u can have you lhs charge a batt and see what happens if your esc is the prob thier many better ones out thier and cost less also some say adding a bec helps keep the strain off the esc to opperate the servos.

Ok Ill give all the info and then you guys the heli gods can tell me where I can start to look.

Recently I replaced the junk tail servo with a 3400g. Had no problems aside from the mounting wasnt Ideal. I had no issues with flying it I just couldnt get the tail setup as perfectly as I wanted.
My rex boom mounts showed up the other day so I installed the servo on them, shortened the rod and proceded to set it up. While I was in the LHS they also had the new Eflite CF blades in stock so I couldnt resist and grabbed a set.

I came home and went downstairs to hover it and get the tail dialed in and see how the blades were. I normaly can run a pack and then as soon as it is dead put another in and continue flying. Today when I did my usual I got about 1 min into the next pack and the gyro cut out. I couldnt belive it. I saw the red light go out and I landed asap. Before I could walk over to the heli I heard the Beep saying it had rearmed. So I was like huh... ok lets try again. I proceded to hover for another min or less and the heli lost power, it didnt die outright it just slowed the head spead RIGHT down and landed basicly. It wouldnt increase power again unless I completely reset the heli and start again. I tried again doing the same thing over and again, same thing. So I walk over and the ESC is FREAKING HOT. Like burn my skinn off hot. I have never had the ESC heat problem untill today. I even was flying without a canopy so I could access everything easily and it was freakin scortching. So I had a smoke and let it sit for 5 minz. I cheked it and it was no warmer than it used to get so I figured ide try again. I got mabye 30 seconds of flight and the heli repeated its power loss and I cheked the ESC again. Stupidly hot....


What the hell man, Im starting to think I should have just gotten a Trex if im gonna have to replace all the stock JUNK on this heli... any suggestions?

[sokal]

perfect bet tention iv found is just past the point that the belt would skip teeth.

may seen really loose in the window but its just right

sry i dont know how to explaine in words im sure someone esle can

[MaxKool]

Im using a DN charger and a 2200 venom battery so I dont think thats it. Somthing that popped into my head is that I had the tail case off to put the boom mounts off, mabye I got the belt on the wrong way or somthing. I didnt touch any of the electronics or gears so I dont think its a binding issue. I did notice the tail making a differant sound while spinning, I could only hear it whil i was powering down, but somthing is definatly afoot.. Ill start in the tail.

[MaxKool]

Ok I did the tension chek from as per the manual, and it does seem a little tighter. Im assuming even a small increse in tension could be the problem mabye? How do i go about loosening it?

[SeaComms]

loosen the 4 screws at the bak of the frame where the boom inserts and you should be able to twist/wriggle it in and out a little. I used a scribe and placed a mark on the boom right against the frame to indicate current position, then another few about 1/2mm apart away from the boom to give me an indication of any movement.

Depending on how much you want / need to move it, you may need to loosen the boom support mount on the boom.

Just remember, that if you have the servo mounted on the frame as per stock, moving the boom will slightly affect tail rotor trim.

[MaxKool]

No, as per my post I moved it from stock mount to a boom mount.... I need to set it up anyway the heli was crazy whith the mods I listed in the original post. Even though i figured the mods I did should have improved flyability not made it worse...

[SeaComms]

Ah yes - forgot about that! I guess thats one advantage of the boom mount servo. Have just upgraded mine to the Hitec 5083 (with the new Hitec 5000 gyro) and I mounted it on the stock mounts.

You mentioned you shortened the control rod - I need to do the same, how did you do it? It has been suggested to simply cut it and use a short piece of CF tube to join it back together - all well and good but I cant find any CF tubing around here :(

[MaxKool]

For the sectioning I cut a small peice of aluminum tube. It was lighter than the CF I was gonna use as the CF was thicker walled. I just cut and used 30min set epoxy, but u gonna pay attention so you get it pretty close to straight. I had to hold it till it started to set so it wouldnt sag one way a little.

Anyway, im gonna sit down and tair my tail/boom apart and figure out what is causing this. I just cant see this problem being the servo as I had no problems for a month with the 3400g. It wasnt untill I messed with the boom/tail to get the mounts on that I had the troubles. I cant see the CF blades having much to do with it.....

Argh i hate it when this happens, but hey Im learning the heli in and out tracking little issues down.

[SeaComms]

Yup, I would have torn my hair out a while ago - lucky I dont have much left :)

Aluminium - why didnt I think of that! I might even have some in the garage. Got to run off and look now.

EDIT: A long reach 4mm aluminum rivet fits perfectly :)

[MaXThReAT]

I made a video after a few shut downs in hover. It shows what I think is my ESC cutting out.

The ESC was very hot afterwards. I kept it on the ground after with full 10+- and it doesn't move. I couldn't imagine this in flight. I start in normal mode and switch to idle up. Most of the comments on the vid are stupid as they don't understand my point. It does not happen with the stock 1800mAh but does with my 2175mAh thunder power. I did install some 285MGs and a GY401 with a 3400g. I've had four successful flights in idle up without changing anything besides being outside, in cooler temps and in fast FF since making this video. I've been a bit scared to take it out on hot days in fear of this happening again if not in FF and the ESC is not cooled enough. I may get a eBEC or the Horizon 40amp ESC oorrrrr I might pickup a nice $259 solid CF T-Rex kit with a 430L and 35X ESC and transfer everything over and use my DX6i...before I crash and wreck my 401 and servos…:)…that cost more than the entire B400 kit.

Personally I would compare the B400 to a very standard motherboard on a computer. They meet spec but if you overclock anything it can't handle the extra power draw and heat. I can't see Horizon saying it's their problem since it's not stock but it doesn't leave me wanting to buy anything else from them either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBDvaUdHROU
NBDvaUdHROU

Edit: It's truly amazing, my HF map location shows a perfect satellite view of where I fly. I think it's awesome I can see a few HFs around me, very nice feature HF.

[Friedclutch]

Hi,

My B400 started doing this the other day! Exactly like you describe. I was flying for a few and it seemed to hit Low Voltage Cutoff. I popped in another battery thinking maybe I forgott to charge the first one. It quickly did the same thing. The only thing I can think of is the temps here in Sac, CA are rising lately into the high 70's~low 80's. I volt checked the batteries in suspect, and came out with over 11.5 volts. Got the same voltage reading on my triton 2 charger. Def not dead battery. I touched the ESC and it was pretty hot. Going to grab a sportBEC and see what happens.

[MaxKool]

Well, I pulled the tail apart, adjusted the belt so it was just a bit tighter than 2 loose.
Voila, I ran through 2 packs with a 5min break each time and had no issues. ESC was normal warm.

I put some rex CF fins on the tail and I noticed the left of the horizontal fin vibrating pretty bad. Looked all blury..

Keeping In mind I havent balanced any of the blades on the heli
The tracking apears to my eyes to be good. I havent crashed it at all since I got it so it cant be 2 many things. I did notice when I was working on the tail today that that shaft had a teeeeeeny wobble to it. Almost not noticable and the tail still makes the slight noise now even after the teardown. So mabye ill bite, live with it and wait for the full cnc tail. It will help offset the wieght of the 2200 batteries I figure :)

I actualy realy like how this thing feels now, the CF blades are working great, same or better for sport flying. I dont do any 3d yet so I couldnt say. But I didnt notice having to adjust my flying style at all. The tail feels 100% better but I can now 100% notice the limitations of the stock gyro. Ill post a couple pix when I geta sec :)
Thanks for the help pros

[drd]

How do you adjust the pinion gear mesh Carlo???? Thanx Drd

[SeaComms]

How do you adjust the pinion gear mesh Carlo???? Thanx Drd

Ahh.. I did mine today as it was too loose and on a bum landign I have stripped the tips of a couple of teeth. I had tried to adjust it before but could not get it too move. I discovered that if you loosen off the 4 mounting screws for the motor (the ones on the side with the blue washers) it is still so tight it wont move. But... if you look down beside the motor you can see where the frame steps out to go around the motor, there is a matching notch on the motor carrier, and a small blade screwdriver (bout 2 or 3 mm) will fit in there and you can twist it and the motor cage will slide back and forth. Slide it in til there is no slop in the main gear, then come back out just a fraction, you want the main gear to be able to have the tiniest amount of movement. Also make sure you check it in several postions of the main gear just in case its not perfectly round.

And as to the ESC overheating, the 3400 is a digital servo, and with new CF blades that are not balanced you will most likely be generating a high speed vibration. Whilst not really noticeable to the naked eye, it will be shaking the crapola out of the gyro and causing it to continuously operate the servo, which will be drawing quite a load. Balance the blades and it should be a lot better.