Grip Flip - Trailing Edge vs Leading Edge Control

[sparx-]

First off, I am not going to pretend to understand how Training Edge (TE) or Leading Edge (LE) controls work. I am not going to pretend to understand why one is better then the other. But what I am going to do is convey my findings between the two and explain why I like on over the other.

I have had Trex Style heads and Dragonus/Century Style heads on my helicopters. The Blade 400 falls into the Dragonus/Century Style head. When I got my Dragonus, I really noticed a big difference in how the helicoper flew. I was expecting the same of the Blade 400, but it was not quite the same. The biggest difference between these the Dragonus and B400 head was the Dragonus had LE Pitch control and the B400 had TE Pitch control on the Main Rotor. I much prefer how the Dragonus Head responds to inputs, but was finding the B400 was acting more like my Trex Style head.

What I did not like about the Trex head was what I have come to find out is called "Blade Slapping". I think that is what JPC called it. Anyway what would happen is when I would make a drastic pitch change, the change felt like it would Lag and then all the sudden SLAM to where I wanted it to go. Like the servos had to build up enough energy to overcome the resistance to the pitch change. I was seeing this on the Trex Head as well as the B400 head, but not on the Dragonus. It made IMHO, for a very "jumpy collective". It was very hard to do precise and controled pitch changes.

Again, the B400 head is damn near the same design as the Dragonus, so I was a little miffed it did not react the same. Since the major difference was the LE vs TE control, I decided today to flip the grips on my B400 so it would have LE control. This is really very simple to do. Just unscrew the Mixer Arms from the blade grips, flip them both over and reattach the Mixer Arms. You should not have to make any adjustments doing this. I did NOT flip my mixer arms. I left them in their stock postition and only flipped the grips.

The results were astounding to say the least. The "Blade Slapping" is all but gone. I feel I have better fine control now. The cyclic also benefitted from this as well as it feel more precise and crisp. Now when I move my sticks, I see a result. I find it easier to do stationary flips, stationary rolls and any other manuver that requires going from postitive to negative pitch. The change from postitive to negative, and vice versa, is alot smoother now. The heli is simple alot smoother all around. I started working on doing tic-tocs the other day and was having trouble with them because of the changes between neg and pos pitch were just not that smooth. I put it down to my collective management at the time. I have yet to try them with the LE control, but I see no reason that they will be alot better now.

This change has really woke the B400 up. So if you are getting into more advance manuvers, give it a shot, you will be suprised.

SPaRX

PS. Do not forget to flip your blades over if you do this :)

[SeaComms]

Did you have to reverse any settings in the TX when you did this? I also heard some others saying they got binding problems if they didnt reverse the mixer arms too? How did yours go?

Cheers, Dave.

[sparx-]

Yeah.. forgot you have to reverse your swash mix as well. Your swash needs to go up for as you push your stick up and down as you push it down.

They symmetry does not change if you just flip the grips. The binding would occur possibly if you flipped the mixer arms as well. But I have not done this nor do I see a reason to do so right now. I did take a quick look at flipping the mixer arms and it did not appear it would be an issue.

SPaRX

[sokal]

well sparx just about hit it on the nose

thies almos no resistance on the blade surface when you control the leading edge
vs the trailing edge

most full scale use leading edge control due to the performance and also less impact on the controls

for and example when you were younger and used to stick you hand out the windows in the car and pretend you hand was a wing. you would twist your hand up and down it was almost effort less for you hand to move up and down

but if you were to hold that twis in your arm and try to keep your arm from going up/down that would be impact the trailing edge control would feel

versus the ease of no force or preasure on the control surface.

so the real diffrence is less impact on the servos to change blade pitch witch provides faster response

[Heli Jim]

Hey Sokal, have you flipped your grips on your B400?

Is it really as simple a job as it sounds?

[sparx-]

Hey Sokal, have you flipped your grips on your B400?

Is it really as simple a job as it sounds?

My explanation not good enough?

It is really that simple. Remove the mixer arms. Flip the grips so the arms are on the Leading Edge. Replace the mixer arms. Then change your swash mix settings on your TX for pitch, if you setting is +75, change it to -75.

SPaRX

[Heli Jim]

Geez, SPaRX........lighten up!

I KNOW who Sokal is and I've seen him fly.
I was asking for his opinion..........

[sokal]

like sparx said it really quite simple just the words alone says how to do so
or just follow his theory flight characteristics will change so be prepared for that.

My explanation not good enough?

It is really that simple. Remove the mixer arms. Flip the grips so the arms are on the Leading Edge. Replace the mixer arms. Then change your swash mix settings on your TX for pitch, if you setting is +75, change it to -75.

SPaRX

[LockMD]

maybe if I ever do a flip, loop, or roll I will try..... or by that time I will have forgot this tip :)

[sokal]

all it realy does is increase response time and lessens the load on the servos so they will draw less amps. benifital all the way around

just remember the charecteristics your used to will change
a lil learning curve but im sure after a pack you will back to normal

[sparx-]

all it realy does is increase response time and lessens the load on the servos so they will draw less amps. benifital all the way around

And with those, it allows you to be more smooth and precise with your collective changes. Maintaining altitude through slow and hovering manuvers becomes alot easier. Some will find they might need a little expo :). It just all around makes the heli fly smoother. It is a VERY noticable difference.

just remember the charecteristics your used to will change
a lil learning curve but im sure after a pack you will back to normal

Yes he is correct here. I slammed my Dragonus ( LE control ) into the ground while in a high speed dive because I was not used to the way the pitch responds to my input. Not a problem anymore, but it is a very drastic difference. IMHO it is better and worth the "learning curve"

SPaRX

[SeaComms]

A silly question... If the mod is so simple and improves performance, I dont understand why wasnt it set like this in the first place?

[Wolfpackin]

Don't know for sure but probably because it's more for advanced flyers.

I can tell you for sure that just around the time the Blade 400 was released Jim and Jamie Robertson, of Team Horizon, suggested this mod for advanced flyers looking to "wake up" this heli.

[sparx-]

It has been said that the same effect happens when you flip the grips on a Trex. So why doesn't Align do it from the factory as well?

Jim and Jamie also fliped the mixer arms. This would REALLY increase cyclic and pitch rates. Not something I feel is needed, but surely someone could do it if they so desire. By just flipping the grips, all it does is makes your pitch and control inputs smoother and more controlled.

SPaRX

[LockMD]

It has been said that the same effect happens when you flip the grips on a Trex. So why doesn't Align do it from the factory as well?

Jim and Jamie also fliped the mixer arms. This would REALLY increase cyclic and pitch rates. Not something I feel is needed, but surely someone could do it if they so desire. By just flipping the grips, all it does is makes your pitch and control inputs smoother and more controlled.

SPaRX

Sparx, where are you in the USA, come teach me to fly! You could use a vacation in Cali, no?

[sparx-]

Sparx, where are you in the USA, come teach me to fly! You could use a vacation in Cali, no?


Are you sure you want me to teach you :) . I am just getting buy just like everyone else .

Sure I could use a ALL expense PAID vacation to CA :). I live in Ohio.

But seriously, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask. Also, I really do enjoy talking helis, so if you would like to talk on the Tele, let me know. I got LOADS of minutes on my cell phone I never use. And if it is a night or weekend, well.. its free :). I am dead serious about this too. And that invitation is open to anyone. Sometimes a live converstation is better then all this back and forth forum stuff :)

SPaRX

[LockMD]

Are you sure you want me to teach you :) . I am just getting buy just like everyone else .

Sure I could use a ALL expense PAID vacation to CA :). I live in Ohio.

But seriously, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask. Also, I really do enjoy talking helis, so if you would like to talk on the Tele, let me know. I got LOADS of minutes on my cell phone I never use. And if it is a night or weekend, well.. its free :). I am dead serious about this too. And that invitation is open to anyone. Sometimes a live converstation is better then all this back and forth forum stuff :)

SPaRX


And there are alot of you in Ohio too......but you guys are more on the game then us Cali's yeah that would be cool, to have a teacher........do I get a refund if I cant fly when you leave? :)

Helis - OMG check this out.......apparently if it weighs less than 254 pounds you can fly it without a license.

http://www.innovator.mosquito.net.nz/mbbs2/index.asp

Phone - yes I agree and I have internet phone so ALL my calls are free. We should swap numbers you never know when I will need help NOW and cant or dont want to wait for a reply on a forum.

[yves martel]

:)I made the grip flip just to try because i am curious and septic maby because t-rex machines use trailing edge grip and are very proven.So,if it is so better why other company like align don't do the same thing?

[yves martel]

Jr. and kasama for sure use leading edge grip and probably other company and yes,align is not " in god we thrust"!!!!!!:hug:

[anonomoe]

Just unscrew the Mixer Arms from the blade grips, flip them both over and reattach the Mixer Arms. You should not have to make any adjustments doing this. I did NOT flip my mixer arms. I left them in their stock position and only flipped the grips.I tried this but I think there are some steps missing for me, maybe because of my GY401 JR3500G tail combo?

1. Unscrew the Mixer Arms from the blade grips.
2. Remove blades.
3. Unscrew feathering shaft.
4. Remove and flip blade grips (reinstall washers).
5. Screw in the feathering shaft.
6. Screw in the mixer arms to the blade grips.
7. Reattach blades (they screw in from the bottom up now.)
7. Change pitch in the swash mix DX6i menu from from +85 to -85.

Is this normal? I notice a huge difference in response, the blade is now an animal!

_________________________________________
E-flite Blade 400 3D RTF | Spektrum DX6i/AR6100e | Trex 500 Canopy mount w/Trex 450 Canopy | Futaba GY401/JR 3500G | Align Tail servo mount | JR DS285 | Eflite 325mm CF MRB | Eflite CF TRBS | Stock 1800mah batt

[Redfire SVT]

Here's how I did it:

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=79227&highlight=grip+flip+redfire+svt