Finally - Another Video

[skigolfmike]

Shot this tonight. Lights not great, the cameraman lost it a few times and I forgot to do a few things I know how to do too.

U6K_DEObUEE

[LockMD]

Now that was freaking COOL!!!!

I was thinking the whole time about razzing your wife (the camera man) until I saw the ending credits

Jason actually did a pretty good job, closest loops I saw yet.

[skigolfmike]

You're right, pretty good camera work actually. Biggest problem was the light was getting bad. You can see the camera self adjust as I go in and out of hover. Also, without the background it's hard to see just how fast it was moving. The comment from Jason was This frickin thing's a rocket. I never did hit full pitch/throttle either.

[sparx-]

Nice flying there Mike. Fun tossing these B400s around isn't it ;)

I had the same problem with my camera and the light. Are you using a Video Camera or a Digital Camera that has a video function. Here is how I fixed mine. I went to Walmart and bought a pair of clip on sunglasses that had polarized lens, they are like $8. I cut out a ring from a piece of Foam, removed one of the lenses, glued the ring to the lens and trimmed to fit. When I go out to video now, I just slide my "contraption" over the camera lens start recording. It all but gets rid of the color/white balance shifting.


Here are some pictures of it installed on my camera and a video showing you how it effects the video quality.

[skigolfmike]

I'm using a Sony HC-48 Handicam. I can get filters for it, maybe I should try that. We shot that video at 7:30 and the field was completely in shadows. Up in the air the B400 was still catching some sun. The camera tries to do everything auto-magically though. It actually got hard to see the heli right at the end of that flight.

I've got the heli singing along pretty good. I'm running governor mode on a Phoenix 35 and turning 2950 in idle-up. I had to go to an 11T pinion to do that and still have headroom for the governor. Even with that I still get a little bogging at the throttle/collective endpoints. I'm looking at the Scorpion -6 4400kV motor to fix that. With a 10T pinion in governor mode I can get 3000 rpm headspeed (don't want to go above that for reasons you already stated.) That should have all kinds of power.

[sparx-]

I am really having a hard time understanding why you are having a hard time keeping 2900rpms with the stock motor. I am having no problems hold 2900 rpms with no gov running a throttle curve of 100-90-80-90-100 with 335mm blades. Sure the motor will bogg at times, but it is not the motors fault, just bad collective management on my part.

SPaRX

[skigolfmike]

The difference is the ESC. With the Phoenix 35 ESC, I can only get 2450 RPM out of the motor with a 10T in fixed heli mode. I tried all the options and that was all I could get. I even changed from the 1.56 beta version back to the 1.55 ESC software, and it was better, but not by much. so, the only way to get 2900-3000 RPM with the P35 ESC and the stock motor was to change the pinion. I think it works pretty well and for the most part the governor does it's thing well too.

Another thing of note is when I put on the CF blades I started to get some bogging at the stick endpoints. I think it's because the CF blades aren't as flexible at the woodies. So, I think a little more power would be a good thing.;)

[sparx-]

Actually, blades flexing will cause the motor to bog.

Did you check your RPM without Gov mode enabled to see what your headspeed was at 100% throttle?

SPaRX

[skigolfmike]

Which ESC?

With the stock ESC, it's probably 3000+ at 100% throttle and 0* pitch w/ a 10T pinion

With the Phoenix 35 ESC it was 2450 @ 70% throttle and it did not increase from there. (100% throttle 2450)

With the P35 & 11T pinion it was 2900 at 70%, so in governor mode I can get 2950 at 72% throttle. Basically, the governor tries to maintain the headspeed no matter what the load on the motor. IMHO, it works pretty well too. For example, if I'm in an upright hover 100' high and I give full negative, the governor will sense the headspeed increasing and back off the throttle to maintain the rpm. Do that same maneuver with the stock ESC and a V curve you'd have that head turning 3500 in no time flat.

The interesting thing about the CF blades is how quiet the heli runs with them as compared to the stock woodies. I also noticed the heli became more responsive with the CF blades too. I do know with the exact setup I am running now the woodies didn't bog and the CFs do. FWIW, it bogs less with the 11T pinion than it did with the 10T.

[sparx-]

I know what a Governor does. I simply do not understand why you would get Less RPM with the 11T/Castle ESC vs the 10T/Stock ESC. Something does not seem right. That simply should not be.

This is why I asked what RPM you get with the CC ESC at 100% throttle with NO Governor Enabled.

SPaRX

[JustPlaneChris]

With the Phoenix 35 ESC it was 2450 @ 70% throttle and it did not increase from there. (100% throttle 2450)That is very odd... does the "full throttle" LED light up? When you have it in governor mode, are you running low governor or high governor? Something is definitely not right somewhere....

[LockMD]

I know what a Governor does.
SPaRX


If its not too complicated maybe you can explain the governor to me. I have that option on my 600 using a turnigy 80A esc - program card just says governer on or off :confused:

If it would be too long, maybe you can point me to a link where I can read up, its a China cheapy not very good instructions.

[skigolfmike]

Sparx - Fixed Heli Mode 70% throttle 2450 headspeed, 100% throttle 2450 headspeed.

I tried low timing, mid timing and high timing. I got the most rpm out of low timing. In governor mode I could get 2700 rpm at 75% throttle; however, there was little head room and it really bogged badly. Going to the 11T I got the rpm I wanted and I still get 6 mins easy out of the stock battery flying like I did in the video.

Yeah - I know it doesn't make sense either. I just works better with the 11T pinion. YMMV.

[JustPlaneChris]

So I'm still wondering if you tried high governor (not the same as timing), and whether the full throttle LED lights up when your transmitter is at 100%. You could be looking at an end point adjustment being needed in your transmitter...

[skigolfmike]

That's not the issue. The endpoints are fine.

To setup the Phoenix 35 I started in Fixed Heli Mode (NOT Governor Mode). I put the Throttle endpoints at 50% for high and low throttle. I put the throttle at mid-stick, plugged in the heli and the ESC. The I went to high throttle until I heard the beep. I added at 3 points to that number for throttle adjust. Next I went to low throttle and adjusted the Travel Adjust until I heard the low throttle beep. I added 3 points to that.

Then I set the throttle curve to 0-0-0-0-0. I put the throttle at mid-stick (0* pitch) and started adding throttle to 3rd (middle) position on the curve. I started taching at 50% throttle, checked again at 60%, 65%, 70%. 75%, 80%, 85% and 100%. I played with the parameters many times and 2450 rpm was the best I got with a 10T pinion. I even used both the 1,56 beta software and the 1.55 version of the software.

When I went into governor mode I ended up on high governor. Low governor just plain didn't work. I ended up using the 1.55 version of software, Governor high mode, start power med, throttle response medium, governor gain custom (50), soft start custom (10)

Hey, this is one of those things that why should I try to figure what is should be doing when I know perfectly well what it is doing. It ain't broke, why fix it.

[JustPlaneChris]

Well, it sure sounds like you did everything right. Have you posted a question over on RCG in the Castle support forum? I would sure like to hear their explanation for why a cheapie ESC gives more RPM than a Phoenix....

[skigolfmike]

I went to the CC booth at Toledo and talked to them about it and I called CC on the phone a couple of times. They thought it was kind of weird too. I think it came down to they would need to do some experiments to figure it out.

Look at it this way. The B400 stock ESC and motor are tuned to each other. The Phoenix 35 has to work for a whole variety of motors. My guess is the ESC will work better with another motor like the Scorpion 2221-6 V2.

[JustPlaneChris]

Makes sense! I must say it's something I've never encountered before, but could certainly explain why sometimes folks think a certain configuration is wimpy when others' experience is quite different. :DOH