Triton charger and LiIon bats

[Sluggo]

Hey guys I am running a power flite LiIon 4400mah pack with a 5.1volt reg. I have a Triton to charge it but have heard that there can be prob's with this charger.

I added a temp prob that I intsalled inside the heat shrink of the pack and have the temp shut off set to 100 deg. Do you think this is a safe setup?

Chris

P.S also why is there no one running Poly cells for rx bats?

[DavidH]

Chris,
Since your using the Powerflite Ion's.
Do they have any kind of safe charge circuitry incorporated into there Li-Ion reciever packs?

The Duralites have a safe charge circuit that will not allow the batteries to not be abused when charging. They will not take a charge from a charger that is set up wrong or the wrong type charger.

I have seen a few pilots using the Li-Pos for reciever packs.

David

[Sluggo]

Hey David I am not sure so I got all the Duralite stuff this weekend from Jack Price. He is a great guy and a Canadianto boot hehehe. I will switch out the powerflite pack for a Duralite 4000mah pack this week. Also got his dumb ass proof charger lol.

Also talked to Jack about the Poly's and he said the vibs are very hard on the thin tabs of the Poly's and that is why he hasn't started making rx packs for heli's.

Chris

[RappyTappy]

Hey Sluggo,

I'm using the Powerflite 2200mah Li-Ion pack with 5.1 regulator. I use the Triton to charge and have have no problems with it. I charge my pack at about .5 amps. Sometimes, I'll go to .7 amps and the pack stays cold. I don't leave it unattended though while charging. I get safely over 6 flights on my R90.

[Sluggo]

Cool thanks for the info Chris! I just switched everything over to full Duralites now so I grab there charger to see how I like it.

Chris

[RappyTappy]

Cool, keep us posted on how they work. :)

[Mike Fortin]

What's the deal with the Duralites??? How are you liking them????

[Ivan]

the triton charger has some semi intelligent programming, that will limit the current if the resistance across the pack isn't correct. In some cases the triton won't deliver the full selected amperage. While this is not a big problem, it will just make the charger take longer to charge the batteries.

The Triton uses a constant current/constant voltage charging circuit for Li ions. Meaning that it will provide a constant amperage up to a certain voltage limit, determined by the voltage setting you select, and when the threshold is reached, it switches to a constant voltage, and as the pack fills the current drops. I believe it said that at 100mA of current is when it terminates the charge.

I have not noticed my triton to deliver a lower charge as of yet. But time will tell.

[WillJames]

I have never charged Li-Ion's with my Triton, but I can tell you that hte detection circuitry Ivan is talking about works, but my Schulze chargers will put on average 150+ mah more back into my duralite 1050 LiPo's than my Triton. Makes a big difference on light weight planks to have the extra 150mah per charge. The Schulze does take longer to charge though as it seems to be a little easier on the ramp up in charge rate when beginning the charge.

[ddavison]

I am switching to Duralite's after Toledo. I have two 4000mah packs , I really like them, you should have good luck with them. I will be changing all my packs out including the transmitter eventully, worth the price. Dave

[learjetcb]

hi DavidH, no, the power flite and fromeco do not have the charge safe circuit like duralite.

[WillJames]

I personally think the charge safe circuit and especially the balancing circuit are definitely worth paying for. The Balancing alone is worth it, if you have had Li-xx packs for a bunch of cycles you know what I am talking about.

[Hitch-Hiker]

Sluggo... you made a damn good choice!....

2 years and going strong with my 4000 duralites!.... 9+ flights a day with all airtronics 758 servos!!

I like my Dumb Ass Charger Too!!!

[WillJames]

I like my Dumb Ass Charger Too!!!


It is more like dumbass proof I use mine successfully every time, easy...

I have 2 packs going on 2 years myself out of 3 I started with. Can't beat that. 7+ flights a day at the field with zero field charging is good enough for me. I have seen BDIS fly 19 flights on his R50 though no shit on one charge! Leave it on the shelf and fly something else a weekend or three, go back and waiting heli is ready without charging. Gotta love that.

[Shortman]

I have to say, the Triton charger is great. No it doesn't charge your packs to 100%, but this is a good thing as it saves your packs from being ruined by overcharging, or stress. This results in charging to 95 or so % of the packs capacity and improving the life cycle of your pack. So it all depends on how you look at it. Do you want a pack that last 300 cycles and gives you 1 extra flight, or a pack that last 600 cycles and you get one less flight per charge?

The duralite chargers are nice for being simple, but rest assured the Triton will tell you exactly how much your putting into your pack, you can check the cell voltage, and see how long it takes to charge.

Cell balance, for Lithium Ions there should be no problems. Whereas, in high performance brushless electric applications where Li Poly's are used, there are reports that Li Poly's have failed, and yes, this can be caused by cell inbalance. What makes a cell imbalanced? For one, discharging the pack to hard or again, charging at above a 1C rate can greatly increase your risk of ruining the pack.

I found though that once a pack has become inbalanced, even with the use of a balancer like the duralite (I have the duralite balancer and one of their Li Poly packs (its made from the same cells as EflightPower UK) that they tend to stay unbalanced. You can "balance" the pack again and again, but its only a matter of a couple flights or even one before they become unbalanced. A pack is only suppose to be perfectly balanced at full charge as well, as the pack wears down, inbalance of .01 is not uncommon as the cells will draw a little different current. So really, I would not worry about the cell balancing technology as a good company that practices good Quality control will sort these cells and prebalance them for you. It's just up to you to take care of them.

[fromeco]

Well put Steven.

Kurt Cook
Fromeco Scale Avionics LLC
www.fromeco.org
flyfromeco@fromeco.org

[Shortman]

Your very welcome Kurt. Keep up the good work.

[WillJames]

Steven, I know you have a lot of experience, but I beg to respectfully differ with you on the need for keeping Li-Ion's blanced. I have been trying Li-Ion technology for a while, and not just Duralites. I know quite a few other people who are also and who would agree with the fact that Li-Ion packs with the balancer circuit hold up better over the long run and peak out higher and hold it longer after many cycles than packs without the balancer. I am not talking about Li-Po's at all here just li-Ion's. What this means in practical terms is that you get more flights at the field as your packs with the balancer circuit age, then you do from packs without it. I have no idea if this is due to the charger peak detection triggering early on out of balance packs or whatever, I have no idea about technically why, but this has been my experience. I know PLENTY of people who have found this to be their experience to. Maybe it is due to the very high current draw of helis or something like that to, but I don't know about that either... sorry. Yes the packs without the balancing circuit still work, but every single pack I have that has the balancer circuit since they came out is performing a little better than every single pack I have without. I have 9 Flight Packs that are Li-Ion technology, 4 of which have the balancer circuit. As to how long you can safely fly a Li-Ion RX Pack?? Not sure, I have some that are over 2+ years old and still doing great.

I run a lot of Li-Ion powered things, not just helis and I can tell you if Canon would put the balancer in their camcorder packs I would be VERY happy! After say 50-100 cycles they get so out of balance the stock charger can only charge then to 1/2 to 3/4 charge. They should do a hell of a lot better than that. I put them on mySchulze about one charge ever month or so and that seems to make them last longer, but still not that long. I am on my 4th Canon 75+ Dollar Li-Ion pack in 1.5 years of running the camera. :DOH

[Shortman]

I completely respect your experience with the Lithium Ions William. It seems the whole unbalance vs. balanced cells really stirs up a lot of mixed feelings. If you have a lithium Ion going out of balance, try charging it at the normal charge rate (not sure what your using for the Lithium Ions, but at about 90% completetion, simply put the charger on 100mah and let it slowly top off the pack. You will be surprised how much this can help your battery pack to stay in balance.

After about 2 years on a lithium ion, I would start watching it's capacity closely as you may be nearing the end of its life. It's safe to say that Lithium Ion packs should handle 500 cycles very easily and more if again proper care is taken.

[DavidH]

After about 2 years on a lithium ion, I would start watching it's capacity closely as you may be nearing the end of its life.

I have a couple packs of Li-Ion that have been in use for 3 years. They still seem to have just as much capacity as the day I installed them. The packs get used from fully charged till they register about 6.8 volts with 1 amp load and they are recharged. Been doing that for 3 years now and still get the same number of flights with them from a full charge. They probably have a lot more than 500 cycles on them.

David

[Hitch-Hiker]

"more like dumbass proof "

yea, thats what I ment.... Im a dumbass... lol

[WillJames]

Im a dumbass... lol


Join the dumbass club I started. :)

I like simple and easy. Duralites fit the bill very nicely!!

Seeya soon Jeff!!