Question for SPaRX

[HeliMix]

There is no reason you cannot turn a Blade 400 into this very type of machine. Drop a 9T pinion on the motor. Install some 335mm blades. Lower your thorttle curve so you are running at 2300-2500 RPM. This can be done with any heli for that matter. This turns the Blade 400 into a very smooth and relaxing heli to fly around.

People have an EXTREME mis-understanding of Headspeeds. You DO NOT need 3000 rpm to fly these things. Slower headspeeds make these helis less twitchy and very relaxing.

SPaRX

SPaRX, can you give me/us more detail on what changes you recommend to make the Blade fly like a scale heli? Specifically the throttle curve, pitch curves (if tweaked). Right now, I am not going for 3D. I just want to learn to fly my heli around like a heli. Once I master that, I may venture further into 3D.

Any detailed help you can give us is greatly appreciated.

[darkhawk22]

I'd like the info. as well. I enjoyed flying my CX2 but was looking for something to fly outside that would give some banked turns etc.. So i'd like to know what settings to use as well.

[LEADWORKS]

I'd like to know too, and without having to swap out the pinion, if there is a way. It would be nice to have two different programs in the Tx - one for 3D, and one for very stable flight.

[HeliMix]

I'd like to know too, and without having to swap out the pinion, if there is a way. It would be nice to have two different programs in the Tx - one for 3D, and one for very stable flight.

I am willing to swap out the pinion gear, but Leadworks does have a good point seeing how the curves would need to be different etc.

I did duplicate my B4 set up on my Tx and made some tweaks to my throttle curve, but cannot seem to get the heli to recognize the profile. I suppose I need to re-bind it to use the new profile?

[LockMD]

I did duplicate my B4 set up on my Tx and made some tweaks to my throttle curve, but cannot seem to get the heli to recognize the profile. I suppose I need to re-bind it to use the new profile?


you are 100% correct.

[LEADWORKS]

although, the fact that the blade 400 is so touchy and good for 3D makes a good argument to the wife for the need for another heli. If we want to have multiple heli's, guys, we better not shoot ourselves in the foot by making one that does it all.

[sokal]

iv changed nothing in the curves and preatty much can do all scale helicopter functions and manuvers so im not certian changing anything is needed. all is really need is understand how a realy helicopter pilot move thier controls during said manuver

i know i have an unfair advantage the best thing i can tel you is to read through the rotorcraft hand book explains the basic and advanve helicopter manuvers

i fly in 90-100% constant rpm but sill can preform all manuver in ilde up and in stock curves

just learn collective managment will help the most

but sparx may have a better idea

[Wolfpackin]

I agree with sokal, and IMO the stock throttle curve is pretty slow already.

Keep the headspeed up and add some expo if you want the heli to be less responsive to stick inputs.

[sparx-]

I agree with sokal, and IMO the stock throttle curve is pretty slow already.

Keep the headspeed up and add some expo if you want the heli to be less responsive to stick inputs.

Wolfpacking and Sokal, do you guys have Tachs? I would be really interested to see what RPM you guys are getting a 0 pitch with your throttle curves

SPaRX

[sparx-]

Ok.. to tame the Blade 400 down, you basically need to do what you quoted me posting.

But I really cannot tell you exactly what to do to get there just yet. There is too much inconsistancy between what I am seeing and what others are seeing.

For example..... These guys flying with 100-95-90-95-100 throttle curves. If I use that curve, I will be looking at 3100-3200 rpm at the head. So it is impossible for me to tell you what throttle curves to use.

I have a 9T pinion on the way, should be here friday or saturday. I am going to put that on and see what RPM I get with a higher Throttle Curve.

The key to a smooth flying heli is getting the Headspeeds DOWN! I know, this goes against EVERYTHING you have read. Everyone says that Higher Headspeed = More Stability. This is only partly true. Yes, when you run a High Headspeed, the Heli will "Lock" into a hover nicer then at Lower Headspeeds. It is basic physics. The Faster you spin a disc, the harder it is to upset it from the axis it is spinning in. So High Headspeeds are great if all you want to do is Hover.

Where High Headspeed kick you in the butt is when you move out of a hover. The higher headspeed makes the heli react A LOT faster. It is creating more thrust. Now you lower the headspeeds down and the heli will become more Docile. It will still react fast, but it will lose all the "JUMP".

If you want further proof of that, read through how these guys set their helis up when they are doing the F3C Competitions. WHen they are doing their precision flying, they will run a lower headspeed. When it is time to do the Aeros, they increase their headspeed.

Another way to help is put on some longer Blades. Drop a set of 335mm blades on the heli. This has the same result as increasing headspeed when it comes to stability. The larger the disc, the harder it is to upset it out of the plane it is spinning in.

Here is what you are shooting for basically ( a Tach will be very helpful here) if you want a nice relaxing heli to fly that has the ability to kick it up a knotch when you want it to.



Throttle Curve Setup

With a throttle curve of 100-95-90-95-100, you are looking for a Headspeed of around 2800-2900rpm. This will allow you to do jsut about any Aeros you could want to do. This will be your Stunt Mode.

For your normal curve, you will need the tack. Set your 0 pitch/Center throttle up so you are getting around 2400-2500 rpm. Then adjust your curve so that it will keep this Headspeed constant through your pitch range. This will be your normal mode. You will still be able to loop and roll at this headspeed, so if you want to be able to do so in this mode, you will need to have a V curve in this mode. Say you get 2500rpm at 70% throttle. If you want to be able to loop/flip/roll, then I would set a curve up like 100-85-70-85-100. If you do not want to then somethign like 0-70-70-85-100

Odds are you pretty good you will need to change out the pinion to get this. I will know better when my 9T pinion shows up this week.

Pitch Curves

You can keep the stock pitch curves if you want. I would advise you leave it alone for your Stunt mode. You will want full neg and pos pitch in that mode.

Now if you want more graceful pitch changes in your Normal mode, then start trying different curves. Try something like 80-65-50-65-80. This will not allow you to go to full pitch and will make pitch changes very smooth and graceful. If that is too slow, then start bumpin it up. This is going to be a "Feel" thing. When you get it right for you, you will know it.

Flybar Weight, Flybar Length and Paddles (like Gorilla Programmable)

These things will also tame a jumpy heli. B400 has a 220mm flybar, replace it with a 190mm. Get some flybar weights and install them. You will be able to move them along the flybar to get the "right feel". Also, heavier Paddles will help as well. The Gorilla Paddles are programmable in that you can add and remove weight from them. These will do wonders in taming the beast.

That is about all I can think of right now. If you have specific questions, please ask.

SPaRX

[HeliMix]

Thanks SPaRX. I will digest this and see what I can do on the sim first. Better to break it there than in RL.

Any one have any ideas on a good tach at a reasonable price?

[sparx-]

http://www.helidirect.com/product_info.php?cPath=62_448&products_id=2215

That is the one I have. I bought my at my LHS. Works well.

SPaRX

[HeliMix]

<blink> Wow, that was fast! ;)

[Ti RX-8]

Pitch Curves

You can keep the stock pitch curves if you want. I would advise you leave it alone for your Stunt mode. You will want full neg and pos pitch in that mode.

Now if you want more graceful pitch changes in your Normal mode, then start trying different curves. Try something like 80-65-50-65-80. This will not allow you to go to full pitch and will make pitch changes very smooth and graceful. If that is too slow, then start bumpin it up. This is going to be a "Feel" thing. When you get it right for you, you will know it.

SPaRX

I don't think that's a very advisable pitch curve.
Did you mean something more like 40-45-50-65-80?
Or are you actually suggesting going back to positive pitch below half-stick?

[LockMD]

looks more like a softer idle up throttle curve

[sparx-]

I don't think that's a very advisable pitch curve.
Did you mean something more like 40-45-50-65-80?
Or are you actually suggesting going back to positive pitch below half-stick?


Sorry.. meant something like 20-35-50-65-80

Have to bear with me. I am all looped up on drugs.

SPaRX

[HeliMix]

:lol: I was going to guess that earlier but didnt want to say anything. ;)

[LockMD]

Sorry.. meant something like 20-35-50-65-80

Have to bear with me. I am all looped up on drugs.

SPaRX


DRUGS, I want some.......


Hey Sparx hate to say anything, cause I know I dont compare to you as far as knowledge of this hobby BUT.....dont you think that is too much negative and will enduce hard landings?


40-45-50-65-80 from Ti rx-8 looks better for softer landings, just my worthless nickle

[sparx-]

DRUGS, I want some.......


Hey Sparx hate to say anything, cause I know I dont compare to you as far as knowledge of this hobby BUT.....dont you think that is too much negative and will enduce hard landings?


40-45-50-65-80 from Ti rx-8 looks better for softer landings, just my worthless nickle

Not if you want to flip/loop/roll in normal mode. It is a preference call. And you should be able to land in any mode soft :) .

It is not a good thing to program crutches into your Radio.

SPaRX

[LockMD]

Not if you want to flip/loop/roll in normal mode. It is a preference call. And you should be able to land in any mode soft :) .

It is not a good thing to program crutches into your Radio.

SPaRX


Wait you can do flips and rolls in normal mode?

I thought you were giving advice for a tame bird for newbies?

[sparx-]

Wait you can do flips and rolls in normal mode?

I thought you were giving advice for a tame bird for newbies?


You can flip/loop/roll with lower headspeeds. I said IF YOU WANT TO, I suggest that pitch curve. Otherwise use the stock curve

SPaRX

[LockMD]

You can flip/loop/roll with lower headspeeds. I said IF YOU WANT TO, I suggest that pitch curve. Otherwise use the stock curve

SPaRX


sheesh you dont have to yell, EXCUSE ME for asking!

[sokal]

loops ad rolls dot require neg pitch
i think flips do

[JohnAu]

Hi, What tamed my heli was me learning to use smooth small movements of the sticks and concentrating on the heli's movements and judging how it will react to any stick input. I made the mistake of thinking i can short cut my learning by some how making the heli less responsive, but this does not work there is no shortcuts to learning to fly. I use factory settings and with alot of practise can now hover and keep the heli in one place. I have had my blade 400 for 6 weeks and tried all the things to tame it but in the end i realised it was me that will tame it by practise and more practise.

Just my thoughts,
JohnAu.

[HeliMix]

I have no problem controlling my heli. I have been told by experienced pilots that a 3D heli and a scale heli fly differently. Flying the 400 is great.