Couple heli setup issues..

[MaxKool]

Ok heligods, got another couple setup questions.

1. After leveling my swash finaly (thanks sokal for the vid) I have some serious forward drift. Ive double checked the swash and the links and they apear to be level. If I remember back to my cx2 days, with a 100% leve swash I had some drift so I had to do some fine "unleveling" to get it perfect. Not so much where you could see it but so that the drift was gone. Im thinking ill do the same on the 400. Make small adjustments till there is little to no trim required for stable hovers.

2. Tailsetup, Im using the stock gyro and a 3400g on the tail. ive managed to get it setup in rate mode with almost no drift (90% perfect) And when I swich over to HH mode its quite a bit off. So I used some subtrim and slid the servo on the boom a mm or 2 to fix that. Now its nice and locked in. Here is my problem... to get it to not drift I seem to have almost no travel on one direction on the tail slider causing the servo to bind on full rudder movements. This isnt normaly a problem as I almost NEVER need to use full inputs on the rudder. Eitherway, this is somthing that is bothering me and Ide like to try and fix it. Its been anoying me for 2months and im finaly fed up with it. I would guess it has 1/4 movment on one side and 3/4 on the other. Causing it to not even touch on hard inputs one way and binding the other way.... help :D


thanks in advance guys...

[eugenefelisco]

Did you check for cg if balance?

[MaxKool]

With the stock battery the CG is bang on. With my 2200mah its nose heavy(duh) I have a seperate model in the TX for the 2200 bats that has the nessesary trim adjustments for the 2200 batteries....

[MaxKool]

Ok, So the swash is dam near perfect, Almost hangs in spot while hovering (as good as I can get with a CP)

But the tail is realy pissing me off. It will not hold or drift unless I have the travel SO far that there is mabye a quarter inch of movment on the outer side of the tail slider. This is stupid. Shouldnt I be able to set it up almost center and then when It spools up the gyro will make adjustments to keep it countering the blade? Basicly Im having to put all the tail blade pitch in with mechanical adjustments and then it works, but it still drifts. Im sure I can adjust out the drift as I have boom and end links to adjust. But the fact that I have to almost have it all the way one way just so it dosnt spin like a madman in rate mode is making be batty. Ive been fighting this since I got it and even with a topnotch tailservo this gyro seems like total junk.

[sparx-]

Max, that is how you set up those types of gyros. You mechanically put enough pitch in the tail blades to hold the tail still in a hover when you are in rate mode. Yes this means you will have more travel on one side then the other. That is just how these types of gyros work.

Here is how you set these gyros up.

1. Set the Trim and Sub-trim for you Rudder channel to 0. NO TRIM.
2. Plug in Lipo and put the gyro in rate mode.
3. Raise heli into a hover. Note which way the tail is drifting, if it does, and what you need to correct it.
4. Move Adjust the Control Rod Length to compensate for the tail drift.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 until you can raise the heli into a hover and the tail does not drift. When you have the tail holding in a hover move on to step 6.
6. Put Gyro back into Head Holding mode.
7. With the heli on the ground, move the rudder stick to one side and release. You will most likely see the servo drifting one way or the other.
8. Now add in subtrim to remove the drift. Adding trim will cause the drift to speed up and the other direction it will slow it down.
9. Repeat steps 7 and 8 until you have removed servo Drift by adjusting Sub-Trim.
10. Raise heli into a hover. Adjust gain till the tail just begins to wag and then back it off some.
11. Go back an repeat step 7. Typically when you adjust the Gain, you will need to adjust sub-trim again for drifting.

After all that, you tail should hold just fine.

SPaRX

[SeaComms]

Then every 5 minutes repeat steps 7 and 8 :)

Well, at least thats what I had to do, mine would never stay not creeping for more than 5 minutes after setting it. Hence not have Hitec 5000.

[sparx-]

I have not had the Eflite version of this gyro, but have had many incarnations of this type of gyro. I never had that problem. The key is letting the gyro acclimate to the temperature you have it in before powering it up. Depending on the weather, I would have to readjust the subtrim after a 1-2 minutes of flying and after the electronics in the gyro heated up, but that was about it.


SPaRX

[sparx-]

IF someone wants to donate one, I will be more then happy to install one on my Heli and get it working properly and write up a how-to. I will return it to you afterwards. So any of you guys that have upgraded, wanna donate one to the cause.

SPaRX

[SeaComms]

Was gunna say I would send you mine, but then realised you are over the other side of the world!...

I did set mine up that way, works quite well and was able to dial out all the drift. If I then switched it all off and let it sit on the bench for 5 minutes (in the same spot its been sitting the last week or so) when fired back up the creep is back and it would require 2 to 3 clicks of trim to eradicate it. Same would happen during a 5 minute flight at least twice. Not sure wether I just got a dud (everything else I got was..) or they dont like being upside down (in the land downunder - poor humour..)

[Wolfpackin]

IF someone wants to donate one, I will be more then happy to install one on my Heli and get it working properly and write up a how-to. I will return it to you afterwards


No need, you just did that in your previous post.
That's how it needs to be done.
You may need to go back and forth a couple of times between rate and HH to find the sweet spot but that's how it's done.

In my case I found that it works best when I have a very slow CCW yaw in rate mode. Then with the added right subtrim, to stop creep, everything seems to balance out in HH.

[Ti RX-8]

Not sure wether I just got a dud (everything else I got was..) or they dont like being upside down (in the land downunder - poor humour..)

I thought you needed special gyros that spin in the opposite direction when you live down under! (j/k)

[MaxKool]

Wow Sparx, thats axactly what I needed. I followed some of those steps before but you went into a bit more detail and now I understand completely. So its ok if it almost is adjusted all the way one side when setting up in rate mode?

Thats awesome, as soon as my packs are juiced again im gonna go down and get it fixed.

On a Side note, man are the stock landing skids weak. I have broken 3 struts now, all on what I would call rougher but not hard landings. I ordered some metal ones and they should be here shortly. And if the tabs break ill just epoxy some aluminum strips to the bottem of the frame to make new mounts. I might even do that anyway just casue I dont like how weak this part of the heli is. Ive read a few of the guys have broken tabs off, and replacing the frame just for that seems wasefull and unimaginative ;)

[sparx-]

Wow Sparx, thats axactly what I needed. I followed some of those steps before but you went into a bit more detail and now I understand completely. So its ok if it almost is adjusted all the way one side when setting up in rate mode?

Thats awesome, as soon as my packs are juiced again im gonna go down and get it fixed.

On a Side note, man are the stock landing skids weak. I have broken 3 struts now, all on what I would call rougher but not hard landings. I ordered some metal ones and they should be here shortly. And if the tabs break ill just epoxy some aluminum strips to the bottem of the frame to make new mounts. I might even do that anyway just casue I dont like how weak this part of the heli is. Ive read a few of the guys have broken tabs off, and replacing the frame just for that seems wasefull and unimaginative ;)

No problem. Let me know how it works out.

And yes, it will favor one side quite a bit in rate mode. These gyros need a Mechanically Setup tail for them to work right. That means, when you are in rate mode, the tail needs to hold in one place with no input from you. The closer you get it, the better they work. This is where the Spektrum DSP75s would work very well. With the programmer you can set the servos endpoints so that it will not bind on the short side. With a non-programmable, you just have to deal with it. Odds are you will never give that much input anyway and it is not like the servo is going to spend alot of time on the ends of the travel.

Another thing you have to remember is these gyros are sensitive to temperature changes, not only the ambiant temperature they are in, but their "working" temperature. As I have not had one of these infront of me, I do not know how much the "working" temp will effect them. If they are crammed into a small case, then they will heat up as you use them. This wil cause the "creep" or "drift" to start up again. One way to combat this is to do all this setup after you have hovered the heli for 2/3 minutes. Then most of the time, you will start your flight with a little drifting that will go away as you run out your pack.



SPaRX

[Wolfpackin]

You are 100% correct...again.:roll:

The G110 is very sensitive to temperature, in my experience.
Not only to temp changes but the ambient temp in which it operates.
For me it seems to "lock in" better outside where the temp is much cooler (45-60F) than inside at temps of around 72-78 degrees.
Could be a cooling issue regarding the internal heat build-up you described.