Crash Damaged Blade 400 - My First Heli Project

[Twmaster]

Heh. Shoo Shoo is a sweetheart... Too nice a girl for the likes of this bird.

I'm thinking that since helis are such harsh mistresses to master this is more in line....

http://fuzzymunchkin.dyndns.org/tdot/wp-content/pageimages/fantasyart/dominatrix.jpg

:D

[ted_wears_a_hat]

^ :YeaBaby::YeaBaby::YeaBaby: I can see her painted across the canopy, whip running down the tail boom!!

Ola Helifreaks, hope you're all well. Been a busy weekend (bank holiday three day weekend here!!) so I hadn't had much time to tinker until yesterday but I have now replaced the tail servo with a near as makes no difference equivalent.

Newly Installed Tail Servo:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4611

After installing it I read around the web a little as regards to setup and moved the pushrod join down a hole as seems to be recommended. I also centred the tail after moving gyro setting 1 down below 50% (48%) and made sure the servo arm was at 90, the pushrod was the correct length and the tail slider was at the half way point of it's travel at midstick.

Tail; Centre Stick:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4612

I then moved the gyro back up above 50% and started looking at the changes. The higher percent I added the further to the boom the entre point appeared to move? I only got it to 57% before the difference in travel on both sides of centre started to become noticeable.

I don't entirely understand rate and head hold and how the settings of the gyro work so I'm now a little confused. Below are images and video of the tail travel with two different gyro settings.

Gyro Setting 1:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4613

Gyro Setting 1 Stick Test:
VpEflx9CjLY

Gyro Setting 2:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4614

Gyro Setting 2 Stick Test:
_kC4KsKo5Sc

Confused about where to go next I thought I do something simpler and make sure the blades are nicely balanced! I can manage these more simple tasks!

Freshly Balanced Blades:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4610

If anyone knows where to find a beginners guide to what rate and heading hold is and how the gyro works or can explain in basic terms for me it would be much obliged.

Take care all.

Ted

[Twmaster]

Gyro, somebody say gyro??

http://www.electric-rc-helicopter.com/article/gyroconfusion.php

[ted_wears_a_hat]

Excellent link, thanks for that Tw.

I'll need to get her up in the air to finalise the gyro set up by the looks of it and after going through Finless' videos and setting up the head that won't be for a couple of weeks as a few more parts are required. Noticed that the main shaft is ever so slightly bent when using the swash levelling trick posted here and though some places have it in stok I am going to wait until pay day and make a full spares order for everything I may need in the future rather than these bit part orders. If nothing else the postage will be cheaper!

So for the rest of the month it is plenty of sim time for me!

I will have to try and convince my boss that I need a new lap top, tehn I can run Phoenix. Until then Clearview it is. In Clearview I can handle the Raptor 60 (marked easy) pretty well. The Blade is a little trickier though!

Have a great weekend all.

Ted.

[ted_wears_a_hat]

Well, its been a long month getting time on the sim and I am starting to feel fairly confident that I am in control of the heli rather than the opposite, Tail in hovering is becoming fairly natural, side on takes a bit of thought but isn't resulting in the crashes it was and even nose in doesn't cause the instant panic it once did!!

I've also been practising getting the bird back when she has strayed and is out of orientation. It's amazing what closing your eyes for a second and stabbing a stick randomly can do to your flight path!! :wow2: I seem to be able to rescue it now more often than it plows into the ground but my disaster recovery is far from infallible. :YeaBaby:

I've also been doing a lot of reading and a lot of searching for parts and finally it everything I need is here or in transit! Found some nice reliable retailers, had to mix and match to catch stock but it's all good.

I've learnt a ton from folks who have taken the time to make build vids, post thoughts and tips and generally share their experiences. There is some great resources here and on other sites for B400 owners so I even feel pretty confident doing the rebuild. There may even be a couple of mods! Functional mind, no excess. :YeaBaby:

Main upgrades are a SportBEC (found a UK distributor after loads of searching), TREX 500 skids and TREX 450 tail support/fin The latter two are simply to increase ground clearance.and the first is an insurance policy. Beyond this Horizon are going to take back my RX for a firmware update from 1.2 to 1.6 which I haven't done yet but I'll get of the RX and send it off as soon as I start rebuilding and strip the bird right down. Does anyone knwo if the 1.6 firmware includes programmable fail safes for more than just the throttle?

The last main change is from the stock servos to Spektrum DSP75s all round. I chose the DSPs for a couple of reasons (beyond getting a good deal on four and the programming tool). The one on the tail means I can use digital mode on the stock gyro and see what kind of hold I can get from that, I like their low weight and I don't mind nylon gears as I'd rather replace these than head parts. I'll see how they perform and if they're not up to scratch I have a couple of other options I'd like to try before going for the default Hitec 56s.

Anyway, hoping to start the strip down and rebuild soon so I will update the thread with progress.

Hope you are all flying high. :YeaBaby:

[Twmaster]

That's a darn good summary there Ted. One reason I bought my B400 over a Trex or Mini-Titan was parts availability. My LHS has just about every part on the wall.

Not to pee on your party but I think going to the DSP75 Spektrum servos on the cyclic is not getting you anything as the gears are exactly the same as the stock servo. I also don't believe replacing the servos with more crash resistant ones id going to save you on head parts.

I have a Spektrum DSP75 on my tail for the same reasons you outline. I would not even consider them for the cyclic.

Just my 2 cents sir.

:D

[ted_wears_a_hat]

Hey Twm. :thumbup:

Good advice is never disregarded my friend! Works out OK as it happens as the DSP are on back order, I have spoken to the suppliers and they have changed my order and are still giving me the x 4 price when I am only buying x 2 (for my inconvenience). Since they are on back order I can always increase this again. I am still toying with the DSP75s for their programmable end points and the additional potential for swash adjustments using these but I have always had a nagging feeling the HS-65xxs were the way to go.

I found a couple of places with the HS-65HB and HS-65MG is stock. Is it worth paying extra for the metal gears, the are a couple of grams more per servo too?

Once you have stronger servo gears do you get issues during crashes of the next weakest part breaking more often, perhaps balls *ahem* popping off ?

A mighty fine 2c. Worth a dollar Twm. :YeaBaby:

[006XERT]

You should also review the Setup on the Radio

Starting setup info is at http://www.e-fliterc.com/ProdInfo/Files/DX6iDefault-Program-Settings_Blade400RTFHeli.pdf

Of course this would be after fixing stuck servos or broken teeth or whatever else is mechanically wrong.

Good Luck
006XERT:banana

[ted_wears_a_hat]

Thanks for the comments 006XERT, the radio is currently set at default settings as listed. When I finally get the bird in the air I will start playing with this side.

So I did the first part of the rebuild today, changed the tail boom, checked the belt, fitted the TREX450 rear fins and changed the skids for TREX500 items. I wouldn't normally do these first but I am still waiting for my servos and I don't want to start working on the head without every component ready to be fitted.

I was thinking the tail boom would be a pain but it wasn't too bad at all, just had to make sure the tail rotor is spinning the right way and the half twist in the belt is done correctly.

450 rear fins fitted fine, I needed to extend the lower hole on the rear vertical fin a mm or so but that was the only mod required. The 500 skids needed new holes drilling (2.5mm) and then the rear set needed the hole to be sunk for the nut as the bolt is not quite long enough to go through the boom supports and the skids. I could have gone out and got a longer bolt I suppose but I like playing with the drill. :YeaBaby: Now they're both on though it's great, much improved ground clearance and stability at the expense of a little weight. I think with these training gear may not be necessary, I've kept the old landing sets for when I am more confident.

Next job is the main shaft and flybar which I may do before the servos arrive then when they do it will be just setup time. Talking of servos I decided to go ahead and order 3 HS-65mgs for the collective, they are in stock so they will probably come before the DSP 75 for the tail. If they do I have a couple of J Perkins 7.5 gram servos, one of which can be used for the tail in the interim.

All that and still had time to order a cheap rx battery pack and charger for it (4.99 and 9.99 respectively) for the programmer and nip out to town to get some bits for the mrs. I tell ya, my credit card is going to be cut up for blade shims at this rate!

Take care helifreaks. :D

[Twmaster]

Heh, waiting on parts. The bane of an RC Pilot's existance.

I've fianlly finished all my chores for the day. Thankfully it's full on thunderstorming here which saves me from having to cut grass today! Wheee!

With that in mind I am going to spend today getting Trixie ready for flight.

[rgrealty]

One of my Blade 400's loses power after about 1 minute of flight. Batt is good, as it works perfect in other Blades. Im thinking its either the ESC or MOTOR (Both are stock) Anyone experience this? Any insights before I buy both ESC and Motor?

More Details: Starts up perfect. Hovers Perfect. Then about 1 minute into flight she starts losing power as if Im at the end of my Batt life. Motor and ESC are not abnormally hot. My first instinct is the ESC is bad and shutting me down early thinking the batt is out.

[Twmaster]

One of the guys in my club had almost exactly the same problem. Bad ESC it turned out as.

[ted_wears_a_hat]

Hey Twmaster, yeah waiting for parts is a bind! That post to do list feeling is great, particularly when you have work to get done on the heli!

hey rgrealty. I have heard a few things about bad escs but don't want to upgrade every part so will stick with it for now. I have a SportBEC to install and hopefully that will work as an insurance policy.

My ESC was getting noticeably warm though when I was testing before but when I found bends in the main shaft and tail boom as well as dodgy servos I wonder if is due to one or more of these causing excessive load. Due to the heat I guess this could be different problems. Good luck getting it sussed.

A few pics of the newly installed learner gear, skids are installed to maximise foot print:

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=5285

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=5286

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=5287

[ted_wears_a_hat]

Woohoo. My parts came! Well enough of them to get cracking with the next step of the rebuild!

Hitecs:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=5437
Mighty! Feather! hah

I started last night with removing all plugs from the receiver and stripping off the ESC which will be fitted with a SportBEC at some point soon. I kept a note of what plugs in where:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=5438

Second job was replacing the main shaft. This was largely a fairly pain free process though the bolt holding the head assmbly on was sheared right through and as such the head wouldn't slide cleanly off the old main shaft. To get round it I pulled out the whole main shaft with head assembly still attached. I then removed the swash from the head assembly and slid it off the bottom before taking the brute force and ignorance route to pulling the head assembly off the now bare main shaft. Let's just say it came off in the end! After doing this I replaced the main shaft with a new bend free item and bolted it in. Despite following instuctions as to which end goes in which way I found the flat spot on the shaft was not level with the main shaft retaining collar but rather level with the bearing just inside the main body. Is this correct?

It's a nightmare trying to get the lower nut and bolt on the shaft back on but some perseverance and a little bit of manual dexterity with a magnetic screw driver and jobs a good'un.

Next I turned my eye to the head assembly and replaced the feathering shaft. Now this is a pain in the arse because of all the various washer/bearing parts so take it slow!

Unfortunately it was bent enough so that I couldn't pull it through with a flybar so I had to strip both blade grips. Grr, stupid overly complex task. It would add to the cost of build (and spares) but I think a lot of that stuff could easily be packaged better. They're back together now but I think I may double check them later as I am convinced I have an extra washer. I found that the really tiny washers each side of the assembly to be a little difficult to handle. I also noted that the next set were two very thin washers which looked like one larger one which initially confused my part count!!

Spindle/Feathering Shaft Parts:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=5435

Next up was the flybar. I had to cut the old one as I couldn't get off the flybar weight (i'll see what I can do about this later but for now have some spares) in order to remove it. Stupidly I didn't think to follow the old one out with the new one and as such found in a complete faff to try and get the two tiny washer between the flybar support and cage to stay where I wanted them but after getting the mrs to help we finally got it all together! At this point I was going to add the paddles back on but noticed a slight difference in movement between the two blade grips. When a linkage is hand operated to move the pivot back and forth there is a noticeably different amount of force required to move the one on one side of the head compared to the other. On the image below I have marked the linkage and pivot point.

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=5436

The force required to move the tighter one isn't huge but this feels like a part that should be pretty smooth and free; right? Loosening off the screw slightly evens them up but I assume this isn't a fix. I have some spare blade grips so may play around with this again.

It's at that point I have pretty much left it for now. Next step is to change the servos out and then add just the swash to the main shaft to level this first step out.

I'm quite glad now that I bought a crash damaged machine as I feel I am getting to know my heli more and more and hope that all this work will help in diagnosing issues in the future. As a bonus it allows me to personally Vera a little from the off without feeling like I am throwing money at it. All good.

On a customisation point; I am considering dropping in a 9 tooth pinion after reading some of sparx's stuff and seeing the power and head speed graphs he posted. I have one in the spares kit and wondered a little about how to change it. Is it worth doing now while the head is disassembled? Do I need to replace it via the main gear housing or via the motor? Is removing the motor as simple as removing the four anodised bolts/screws that appear to be holding the motor mount? It there any threads regarding the methodology for this mod here or elsewhere, I couldn't find one with a quick search?

I hope everyone is well.

[ted_wears_a_hat]

This is the first 'building' hobby I have had where the expression 'if it doesn't work right you haven't used enough gaffer tape' doesn't hold true but after some delicate filing I now have 3 installed HS-65mgs on the bird! :YeaBaby:

I have only fitted and centred one arm as yet but work is progressing at a good pace now and I'm hoping to be able to spin her up by the weekend.

I'm on the edge of my seat!

[Twmaster]

Don't know if I posted this web site before but there is a wealth of good tips here for repair of your B400.

The tip for installing the nut on the bottom main shaft bolt was tops. Also a great exploded view and parts order list for replacing the feathering shaft's multitude of bits.

http://www.repairblade400.com/

[Redfire SVT]

Ted,

Make sure the thrust washer (3 piece assembly) goes together correctly. The 2 outside convex washers that sandwich the bearings look the same but are not. The washer with the larger inside diameter installs closest to the head block. Also the open face of the bearings need to face the head block. Centrifugal force will keep the grease in place when installed this way.

[ted_wears_a_hat]

That's a great site TWM I used that for my main shaft replacement.

Thanks for the tips Redfire, the differences in the two parts of the thrust bearing seem to be tiny. I tried to get them the right way round and think I have but the size difference is difficult to spot so I'm not sure if it my eyes playing tricks on me!

It's a pain the feathering shaft I must say, so many parts!

Feathering shaft parts:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=5615

Thrust bearing parts in pack:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=5617

Some feathering shaft parts are included in the complete hardware set:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=5616

Anyway, the build has been taking longer than planned due to work and other social commitments (been losing out rather too much at the poker table in my last few sessions!!) so I haven't really got any further than before beyond checking the feathering shaftand associated parts were put together right.

As mentioned before she does now have her new Hitecs:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=5620

The swash as you can see hasn't been levelled yet but I have got all the servos moving in the right direction. I will post swash mix and reverse settings when I get a moment.

Playing with the servos briefly to check they all travelled correctly I am still noticing the ESC getting pretty warm even though the motor is disconnected so I am starting to worry the ESC is dodgy.

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=5619

Any thoughts?

As ever, take care folks. :thumbup:

[Redfire SVT]

Ted, here is an easy way to check the inside diameter of the convex wahsers. Use a new feathering shaft and slide the washers onto it. Now wiggle the washers to see which ones have the most play. The ones with more play have a larger I.D.

:cheers

[ted_wears_a_hat]

Great minds think a like! :cheers
The tip is great, I did a similar thing in the end, inserting drill bits until the bit just fitted in one but not the other!

I haven't been doing much building but have managed to sneak in some sim hours during lunch and am doing OK with tail in and side on and have now moved onto practise autos. These seem really really hard in the Blade 400 model of Clearview but it seems to be possible to get it down from height with minimal (if not zero) damage. The 3DMP and TREX600 by comparison can almost be flown fairly well with no motor power!!

Take care folks. :hug:

[ted_wears_a_hat]

Finally got a chance to level the swash and centre all the servo's. It's starting to come together. I found the best way to do this was zip tie an allen key to the main shaft and then gently turn the tail blades to check it passes neatly over all three connections.

hnhH-ECHMgk

Had a great Clearview session yesterday as well, really felt like a was FLYING the thing!

:YeaBaby: happy :YeaBaby:

[Twmaster]

The allen wrench/zip tie idea is brilliant and super cheap! I got me one of these from Heli Direct: http://www.helidirect.com/product_info.php?cPath=38_236_375&products_id=2903

Also, the ESC on these is known to be problematic. If you can ditch it for just about any other ESC.

[Twmaster]

And don't forget to put the screws into the servo arms.

[LockMD]

And don't forget to put the screws into the servo arms.



Are we speaking from experience? :YeaBaby:

[ted_wears_a_hat]

^ *chuckles* Eek! That would hurt!

Ola Twm; all screwed in now the servo arms at centred. ;)

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=5730

I think a swash levelling tool would be anice addition to the ever growing tool collection but for now the allen key works a treat. Using a larger sized one gives an edge you can really pull tight on the shaft.

I have read a lot of reports of overly hot ESCs and have picked up a Sport BEC to try and get around this but I may in the longer term upgrade the ESC. Do you think the SBEC will do the job for learning? We'll see how it goes.

I'm really looking forward to getting this thing out and flying it though! I reckon the first few packs will be more nerves than anything though, definately taking it slow. If I enjoy it even half as much as the build process I'm on a winner. I'm definately thinking in a few months or so about putting a little aside for a larger kit heli just for the build.

:shock: