Crash Damaged Blade 400 - My First Heli Project

[ted_wears_a_hat]

Hi all, I hope everyone is feeling good?

I have just finally bought my first serious heli, a crash damaged B400 and am chomping at the leash to get her on the bench and find out what all this is about! I will be using this thread to document what I do and organise my thoughts and hopefully I willbe able to ask some questions and get some feedback!

The previous owner of the B400 that has already been christened Vera obviously bought an RC heli fairly whimsically, quickly realised how difficult it was, crashed her and then couldn't be bothered to fix it. She was advertised for £130 but I bartered the vendor down to £100 arguing that they cost £260 new so £130 was a good price if it was in working order and that it would probably take £50+ to get her flying again. I don't think he realised the DX6i is worth a little bit on it's own!

Poor old Vera, already subject of much discussion.

Before I bought I turned the heli on to check the battery is still good, the gyro arms, the motor works and to check the servo's. The vendor had told me it was a tail strike that caused the damage so I expected the tail servo to not be working and was right but it appears from my limited knowledge that there may be issue with the swash as well. Belt, tail and boom generally all seem fine and straight as does the rest of heli though there does seem to be some issue with the ESC which runs real hot, real quick even without the motor turning fast enough to lighten the skids!

Anyway, without further ado let me introduce to you Vera the ugly duckling. Soon to be a beautiful swan (i hope!!)!

Vera:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4398

Vera - Hot Body:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4399

Vera - Swash - Throttle at 0
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4400

Vera - Swash - Throttle at half
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4401

Vera - Swash - Throttle at full
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4402

So, when I fire up the rotor everything spins the right way but the tail servo gives no response at all. The ESC also seems to be getting very hot when the mtor is idling. Even with the motor disconnected some continuous movement of the working servos seems to warm it up so you can feel it is warm. Could the malfunctioning (FUBAR'd) servo being causing this?

There is also a slightly disconcerting electrical humming/squeal noise coming from the servo located under the battery when the righ stick is move fully down.

.....so all in all there is some work to do here!!

First move is going to be to order a new tail servo I assume, I think I'll get the stock E-Flite 7.5 Gram DS75 Digital Helicopter Servo (EFLRDS75H) but am open to suggestions to others that aren't going to break the bank (I expect I'll kill a few before I get my head around all this!) and will fit in the stock mounts and will be happy to work with the stock gyro and ESC.

Should I take the servo apart to check it is the servo? What checks should I do to find out if it is the servo?

Now, I'm off to read some literature around this site to start getting my head around my next steps!

Take care all,

Ted

[HeliMix]

My Vera! I had no idea her Tx was worth that much. I want it back! :mad:

Just kidding, could not resist. ;)

Congrats on your B4. I sure love mine. My two cents, rebuild the stock servos. Gears for them are MUCH cheaper than a servo. I purchased three sets of gears to rebuild my three front servos after a crash for less than the price of one stock servo. Personally, I would do that until you are sure that the major issues are fixed. May save some money in the long run. That said, once I know I am in better control of the heli, I will be upgrading servos. It is my understating that others will respond much quicker and be more durable once I really start flying her. (yes, mine is a her too).

I also found the slightest friction/binding can cause my ESC to heat up and then it would go into a low power type mode. All I could do was land it, let it cool a second and then it was fine for a few until it heated up again. I had a tiny tiny bend in my tail shaft. Once I replaced that, it stopped heating up.

Can't wait to read more on your progess. Thanks for sharing it with us.

[ted_wears_a_hat]

Hey HeliMix, thanks for the reply. :thumbup:

My Vera! I had no idea her Tx was worth that much. I want it back! :mad:

Just kidding, could not resist. ;)

*chuckles*

Congrats on your B4. I sure love mine.

Thanks man, I have heard nothing but good things about them and had been planning to buy a new one but saw this one and thought this way would give me some build experience and also stop me flying it prematurely and putting it in this state [or worse]!

My two cents, rebuild the stock servos. Gears for them are MUCH cheaper than a servo. I purchased three sets of gears to rebuild my three front servos after a crash for less than the price of one stock servo. Personally, I would do that until you are sure that the major issues are fixed. May save some money in the long run. That said, once I know I am in better control of the heli, I will be upgrading servos. It is my understating that others will respond much quicker and be more durable once I really start flying her.

I think I'm in full agreement with you in terms of not upgrading the servos until I am at home with the regular machine. I'm not sure if it just the gears in the tail servo. There seems to be no response at all from the servo. Could this still be the gears? I was wondering if it might be the servo electrics. I'm a little green so I don't want to strip out the servo without having a backup so maybe I will order a servo and a gear set so I can replace one and have the possibly irrepairable one to play with.

(yes, mine is a her too).

Complex things generally are. :shock::D:shock:


I also found the slightest friction/binding can cause my ESC to heat up and then it would go into a low power type mode. All I could do was land it, let it cool a second and then it was fine for a few until it heated up again. I had a tiny tiny bend in my tail shaft. Once I replaced that, it stopped heating up.

I'll have to go over the whole tail in more detail I suppose to check. Is it an easy part to check/replace?

Can't wait to read more on your progess. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Thanks again HeliMix. No problem sharing, writing this is stopping me fiending for my sim cable to arrive! I hope it is useful in the future for other new to RC folk.

Ted

[HeliMix]

Thus far, I have found that the heli is easy to work on. I can say that the tail shaft replacement is fairly simple. I have a rough video that covers the tail shaft replacement I would be happy to share with you if you like. It is not a public vid for there are some bloopers (dogs barking in the back ground). Now that I have a new camera, I am planning on redoing the video so I can zoom in on some of the detail my former camera (web cam) did not show very well. Send me a PM if you want to see the tail shaft replacement vid and I will shoot you a link from where you can download it.

As far as some of your other questions, since I am still learning too, I do not want to feed you bad info. I will let the B400 God's answer those. There are some fart smellers, I mean smart fellers up here. You will have the answers you need soon I am sure.

[SeaComms]

Looking at the two pics of the swash a mid throttle and full throttle, the elevator servo is not moving (the one under the battery) so I would be looking at that one for the excessive load on the BEC.

[Ti RX-8]

Looking at the two pics of the swash a mid throttle and full throttle, the elevator servo is not moving (the one under the battery) so I would be looking at that one for the excessive load on the BEC.
And either the Aileron servo is not moving enough, or the Pitch servo is moving too much.

[Ti RX-8]

Maybe you got a servo lead upside-down, swapping the signal and GND leads.
That could cause a huge BEC load

[ted_wears_a_hat]

Hi again Helimix, thanks for the reply. PM sent. Glad you have found the B400 easy to work with, gives this newb some hope!!

Hola Seacomms and Ti RX-8 (even your car is rotary! ;) ). Thanks for the replies. I have attached images of the three working servos and their positions in the various points of travel on the sticks.

Vera - Left Stick - Collective - Mid point:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4412

Vera - Left Stick - Collective - Fully Down:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4413

Vera - Left Stick - Collective - Full Up:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4414

Vera - Right Stick - Left and Right Cyclical - Mid Point:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4415

Vera - Right Stick - Left and Right Cyclical - Left Most Point:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4416

Vera - Right Stick - Left and Right Cyclical - Right Most Point:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4417

Vera - Right Stick - Up and Down Cyclical - Mid Point:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4418

Vera - Right Stick - Up and Down Cyclical - Stick Down:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4419

Vera - Right Stick - Up and Down Cyclical - Stick Up:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4420

I think everything is moving apart from the tail servo, whether it is moving correctly is another matter. There is a slight eletrical humming from the servo under the battery under load so it may be on it's way out however.

If I get time tonight I will strip off the tail servo for examination. Got to make time to watch Finless' and Sokal's vids aswell!!

Thanks again for the comments guys.

Ted

[LockMD]

Huston we have a problem.....Ted your swash should stay level from 0 to 100 left stick.

[mupchu]

Before you get really hung up on the proper servo movements and setting up the swash plate correctly, make sure you visit FINLESS Bob's tech section and see the video's on CCPM setup. In fact watch all the video's in the 450SE section and they will all help even though he is not working on a blade heli.

I would probably just replace the gears in the tail servo, if you were set on a replacement I would spend the extra cash and get a futaba 9257, or a JR 3400G in the long run you'll be happier with those.

Like I said, make sure to watch the finless video's, he even has a good one on rebuilding a servo that will help if you chose to replce the gears in the stock tail servo.

Cheers!

[Ti RX-8]

Huston we have a problem.....Ted your swash should stay level from 0 to 100 left stick.
Right, all the servos should move together (collective) when you move the left stick.
The Elevator (front) servo isn't moving with the left stick input.
From the new pictures, it doesn't appear the Aileron (left-side, rear) servo is moving with the left stick either.
It appears that the only servo moving with collective input is the Pitch (right-side, rear) servo.

Ted: Did the model in your TX get messed up? Is it still configured for Heli/120 CCPM?

[ted_wears_a_hat]

Ola mupchu, thanks for your reply. :thumbup:

Before you get really hung up on the proper servo movements and setting up the swash plate correctly, make sure you visit FINLESS Bob's tech section and see the video's on CCPM setup. In fact watch all the video's in the 450SE section and they will all help even though he is not working on a blade heli.

I am slowly making my way through Finless Bob and Sokal's videos. Bith have been very very helpful so far (as I'll come back to later in this post!). It's great that so many people in this community are so up for sharing and helping, so often these niche pastimes seem to be full of elitism. Top videos Finless and Sokal. Thanks for sharing.

I would probably just replace the gears in the tail servo, if you were set on a replacement I would spend the extra cash and get a futaba 9257, or a JR 3400G in the long run you'll be happier with those.

After phoning round UK suppliers it appears that both gears and full servos are like hens teeth at the moment with most places having them coming in "in a week or two" so I might have to get creative.

I don't think I'll go the upgrade route just yet as I think it would be pointless given my own skill level (I'm pretty likely to crash this myself when I get her running again after all). I'll be aiming to have a spare stock servo in hand anyway so I'll probably pick up a servo and gear set. Is there a way to test the servo once the gears have been removed. If I plug it back into the gyro and power up (motor disconnected) will the initial (I assume) small metal cog on the gyro's motor spins up?

I have now removed the tail servo and taken off the facing to get to the gears.

The gears themselves look a little worse for wear but not completely stripped (except possible in one case). There may well be a problem though. This may sound like a REALLY dumb question but is there usually a white liquid/paste that looks and smell a lot like PvA glue inside the gear housing? Have a look at the images below:

Gunk in Vera's tail servo:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4421
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4422

Gunk in Vera's tail servo gears:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4423
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4424

Thanks for your reply mupchu, more lessons from Finless for me! And cheers to you to, Appropriate as I've just been poured a glass!... Watch my typing go downhill.

Hey LockMD and Ti RX-8 thanks for your replies.

Huston we have a problem.....Ted your swash should stay level from 0 to 100 left stick.

Right, all the servos should move together (collective) when you move the left stick.

Thanks a lot for this, I was just making a list of things to check from the first parts of FB's CCPM part 1. There is a bit near the beginning of part 1 where there is a top down view of his bare chassis (well the heli's!) showing how each of the CCPM servos move in accordance with stick input. I definately need to check mine against the vid.


The Elevator (front) servo isn't moving with the left stick input.
From the new pictures, it doesn't appear the Aileron (left-side, rear) servo is moving with the left stick either.
It appears that the only servo moving with collective input is the Pitch (right-side, rear) servo.

Ted: Did the model in your TX get messed up? Is it still configured for Heli/120 CCPM?

If you weren't on the other side of the ocean I would definately be getting the next round in! Good shout. I read this, went and checked the Tx and lo-and-behold the model is set as heli but there is a 90 degree swash setting!

Interesting return Tx to default settings is mentioned in FB's and Sokal's videos so I best go dig them and and go through all the settings!! :shock:

Is this likely to be me being rubbish with the control wheel as I don't think I've been into the swash settings? Maybe it was set like this when I got it....which might explain why the previous owner was frustrated with it.

Could Tx reasons also account for the tail servo not working?

On a different note could a very slight kink in the tail linkage/pushrod be problematic in the future?

Vera - Tail linkage (a slight kink?):
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4425

And for my own reference...

Vera - Cables/plugs into Gyro:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4426
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4427

Seriously; everyone who has posted so far, thanks for all your help. I feel like I have a lot to learn.... more FB videos and reading for me then!!

:thumbup:

Ted

[HeliMix]

Were you able to download that video Ted? If so, did it help at all?

[Ti RX-8]

If you weren't on the other side of the ocean I would definately be getting the next round in! Good shout. I read this, went and checked the Tx and lo-and-behold the model is set as heli but there is a 90 degree swash setting!

Interesting return Tx to default settings is mentioned in FB's and Sokal's videos so I best go dig them and and go through all the settings!! :shock:

Is this likely to be me being rubbish with the control wheel as I don't think I've been into the swash settings? Maybe it was set like this when I got it....which might explain why the previous owner was frustrated with it.

Could Tx reasons also account for the tail servo not working?

On a different note could a very slight kink in the tail linkage/pushrod be problematic in the future?
Ted
Glad to help. From your pix, it didn't look at all right in the swash. :cheers
Not sure about the Tx being the cause of your tail problems, unless the Travel Adjust or Dual Rate on the Rudder channel was zero. To see if the Gyro is causing problems, you could plug the tail servo directly into the Rudder channel on the Rx. (instead of servo-into-gyro/gyro-into-rx)

The slight kink in the pushrod shouldn't be much of an issue, as there shouldn't be that much force involved (these servos aren't that strong). That said, replacing it would probably eliminate one source of potential "slop" in the tail.

[ted_wears_a_hat]

Were you able to download that video Ted? If so, did it help at all?

I did indeed HM, very useful man, not so scared about having to check the belt now! Left one brief question about methodology in a pm. Cheers again for the link.

Glad to help. From your pix, it didn't look at all right in the swash. :cheers

Hola Ti.

Having been involved with a few 'hobbies' with online 'communities' before it is refreshing to find one that is useful, interesting and very welcoming. Good job HeliFreak crew, members and admin alike.

Not sure about the Tx being the cause of your tail problems, unless the Travel Adjust or Dual Rate on the Rudder channel was zero. To see if the Gyro is causing problems, you could plug the tail servo directly into the Rudder channel on the Rx. (instead of servo-into-gyro/gyro-into-rx)

I will be resetting the Tx to default factory settings so if the Travel Adjust or Dual Rate are out this should cure it (got to go look up Travel Adjust and Dual Rate in the glossary now!! :YeaBaby: ).

The tail servo is now in pieces (see images above) and I'm not sure what to do with the gunk in them, or indeed if this is normal (lube?). I was wondering if I could just plug the servo back in without gears and see if the first small bronze cog spins up at all but I'm not sure if this will work or cause damage to the gyro.

The slight kink in the pushrod shouldn't be much of an issue, as there shouldn't be that much force involved (these servos aren't that strong). That said, replacing it would probably eliminate one source of potential "slop" in the tail.

I will try to straighten up as much as I can on the bench for now and see if it looks good, try, try, try again and all that!

Thanks again folks, take care. :thumbup:

Ted

[mupchu]

The white stuff that looks like pva glue, is supposed to be grease for the gears. When I rebuilt my servo's I cleaned it up with alcohol (not that kind :cheers), and used my own grease to lube them back up. White lithium grease is supposed to be prefered (at least that's what finless uses). I am a mountain biker so I happened to have some grease on hand that is plastic friendly so just used what I had.

That said you gears look good on the tail, I would plug it directly into the RX and see if it works. You could have a problem with the gyro if the servo works in that channel. If the servo does not work it looks like it's a burnt out servo. When you look at the gyro, what mode is the gyro in for the tail servo (analog or digital). The stock servo is digital, but it cannot handle the output of the gyro, and should be run in analog mode.

You can get a spektrum DS75 and use it, similar spec's to the stock but the bonus is that the servo can be driven in digital mode. Also you might want to look into what the shops around you do keep in stock regularly, running a hitec hs55 or 56 would also work (those would both be analog).

I can definetly relate to not wanting to upgrade at this point. I would say though that a locked in tail will help you learn more than anything else though. The nice thing about heading hold gyro's is you can really focus on the cyclic controls, and you're tail should stay locked.

If you have not gotten a Sim already I would highly suggest it as a worth while investment. If nothing else if you get grounded by lack of parts it's a good way to keep your skills fresh. Also it's helped my feel much much more comfortable with the nose in orientation without racking up injury's and broken parts :thumbup:

The tail rod looks fine from the pic, but when you get the tail servo working you should listen to see if the servo is making a lot of noise when trying to more the tail. The servo should not make a buzzing sound all the time or something is binding.

[mupchu]

I did indeed HM, very useful man, not so scared about having to check the belt now! Left one brief question about methodology in a pm. Cheers again for the link.



Hola Ti.

Having been involved with a few 'hobbies' with online 'communities' before it is refreshing to find one that is useful, interesting and very welcoming. Good job HeliFreak crew, members and admin alike.



I will be resetting the Tx to default factory settings so if the Travel Adjust or Dual Rate are out this should cure it (got to go look up Travel Adjust and Dual Rate in the glossary now!! :YeaBaby: ).

The tail servo is now in pieces (see images above) and I'm not sure what to do with the gunk in them, or indeed if this is normal (lube?). I was wondering if I could just plug the servo back in without gears and see if the first small bronze cog spins up at all but I'm not sure if this will work or cause damage to the gyro.



I will try to straighten up as much as I can on the bench for now and see if it looks good, try, try, try again and all that!

Thanks again folks, take care. :thumbup:

Ted

Put the servo back together before checking it, not sure if it would damage the gyro but it might damage teh servo itself as well.

[Twmaster]

The part number for that Spektrum Digital 75 servo is DSP75 where the 'P' in the part number means programmable.

Also, Ted, it sounds like the BEC is overloaded on that ESC. That would explain it getting hot just sitting there powered on. As others suggested you may have a defective servo (or two, or three....)

I too am rebuilding a crashed B400 (see attached photo of the carnage). This was just a badly crashed airframe with motor but no electonics.

I'm finding it to be a fairly simple machine to work on and fairly inexpensive to buy parts for. It only took me a couple of hours to install everything the bird needed.

I've reassembled the bird and at present am programming my DX7 to work with her.

Second photo is the rebuilt bird with the head just sitting on the main shaft for the picture as I am in the process of leveling the swash.

I've put Hitec HS-65HB servos on the collective and the Spektrum DSP75 on the tail set to 'tail' mode via programming box.

I decided to go ahead and use these servos as they are easy to get gears for unlike the interglactic backorder the E-F DS75 servos are experiencing.

Other than the electronics the total cost to repair the airframe was $41 including a new set of Align 325 fiberglass blades.

[notreallyme]

from what i am seeing you need to check if the servos are pluged into the correct channel, or it may be possible you have a mode 1 controller (euro version with thottle on the right stick) or someone that might have tried to set it up this way with a mode 2(thottle on the left stick). one more thought i know replacing gears in servos is the inexpensive way each time you crash but in the long run replacing with servos that "won't" strip when you crash is in the long run cheaper if you are going to replace later anyway. it will save all those stock gear sets/servos you buy while you are crashing/learning

[ted_wears_a_hat]

Hey all, been a busy day doing things around the house and I still have a list as long as my arm!

A few general things before I reply to people's posts...

I had a further look through the gears whilst replacing them in order to test the servo plugged straight into the Rx and found that the inner most gear that provides the drive straight from the motor in the servos is stripped on the lower of the two parts of the gear. I assume this is the most common gear to strip as it is the one that rests against the bronze drive gear.

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4447

Annoyingly I was expected a delivery today of a couple of servo's for a twister 3D that are rumoured to fit (and provide essentially exactly the same spec as the e-flite servo, same torque, speed, size etc). The plan was to fit one of these and examine the gears in the other (they are dirt cheap so I'm not to concerned about them being top of the line). Though they might not be the best solution for the long term they give me the opportunity to play around with set up with a fully working bird.

Hey mupchu.

The white stuff that looks like pva glue, is supposed to be grease for the gears. When I rebuilt my servo's I cleaned it up with alcohol (not that kind :cheers), and used my own grease to lube them back up. White lithium grease is supposed to be prefered (at least that's what finless uses). I am a mountain biker so I happened to have some grease on hand that is plastic friendly so just used what I had.

I managed to sneak into a local car parts place whilst doing some shopping for the Mrs and picked up some spray white lithium grease to add to the parts kit!

That said you gears look good on the tail, I would plug it directly into the RX and see if it works. You could have a problem with the gyro if the servo works in that channel. If the servo does not work it looks like it's a burnt out servo. When you look at the gyro, what mode is the gyro in for the tail servo (analog or digital). The stock servo is digital, but it cannot handle the output of the gyro, and should be run in analog mode.

You can get a spektrum DS75 and use it, similar spec's to the stock but the bonus is that the servo can be driven in digital mode. Also you might want to look into what the shops around you do keep in stock regularly, running a hitec hs55 or 56 would also work (those would both be analog).


Put the servo back together before checking it, not sure if it would damage the gyro but it might damage teh servo itself as well.

It looks as though the inner most gear is stripped but when I get my test servo's this will be my next step if it doesn't work out of the box. I only found out when rebuilding the servo to follow your advice, All the gears spin from the servo arm in if this one is not added. No drive from the motor though obviously!! :YeaBaby:

I was looking at the Rx and it is a jumble of wires, which set should I remove if I need to test this, I assume one of the other servos?

The gyro is still in standard mode. In the future if I do an upgrade to a servo that can handle digital is the stock gyro OK?

Very few of the local model shops around here stock much in the way of parts at all. There is reasonable large number of shops outside the area that do online shopping and have reasonable postage rates and good stock levels of most things. Apparently though there is general shortage right now of some Blade parts and most shops seem to be waiting on order. Most said they would be back in stock in around 2 weeks though and all were helpful in discussing possible alternatives.

I can definetly relate to not wanting to upgrade at this point. I would say though that a locked in tail will help you learn more than anything else though. The nice thing about heading hold gyro's is you can really focus on the cyclic controls, and you're tail should stay locked.

I have definately thought about this but it is a real toss up at the moment between that advantage and the disadvantage that I expect as a learner I will have certainly a few tail heavy landings and main blade related acidents too and as such may destroy a few sets!

How often do the servos themselves go rather than the gears? I think I ould happily keep a few sets of gears on hand but replacement servos in the next price band aren't particularly cheap. For now I'll get her up and running and hopefully that will teach me enough to be able to recognise the need to upgrade and also do the upgrade without to much issue!

If you have not gotten a Sim already I would highly suggest it as a worth while investment. If nothing else if you get grounded by lack of parts it's a good way to keep your skills fresh. Also it's helped my feel much much more comfortable with the nose in orientation without racking up injury's and broken parts :thumbup:

Injuries!! Eek! :shock:

My PC is pretty much only fit for office type apps and cubasis but it does just run Clearview (I tried phoenix and just got the old BSOD). My sim cable came today and just about kept off the disapointment of my servos not arriving. I haven't had a chance to play with it yet with the Rx but have brought a projector home from work for real size flying practise when I get through this dang list (typing this on a break from domesti duties)!

The tail rod looks fine from the pic, but when you get the tail servo working you should listen to see if the servo is making a lot of noise when trying to more the tail. The servo should not make a buzzing sound all the time or something is binding.

I'll look out for that. The elevator servo is making a buzzing sound as you describe so after the tail is done I will have to investigate that.

Thanks again for your reply. Have a good weekend. :thumbup:

I too am rebuilding a crashed B400 (see attached photo of the carnage). This was just a badly crashed airframe with motor but no electonics.

I'm finding it to be a fairly simple machine to work on and fairly inexpensive to buy parts for. It only took me a couple of hours to install everything the bird needed.

I've reassembled the bird and at present am programming my DX7 to work with her.

Second photo is the rebuilt bird with the head just sitting on the main shaft for the picture as I am in the process of leveling the swash.

Hey Twmaster! Looks like a sweet job you've done. First photo looks like nothing more than a kit! Nice work man. Is see you have changed the blades and is that a different canopy too? Looks a little more spacious than mine!

Good to hear it has been a good heli to work on as I expect this is going to absorb a good number of ours of my newb mind!

The part number for that Spektrum Digital 75 servo is DSP75 where the 'P' in the part number means programmable.

I've put Hitec HS-65HB servos on the collective and the Spektrum DSP75 on the tail set to 'tail' mode via programming box.

What does the programmable functions allow you to do (excuse me if this is a totally dumb question!)? The programming box you mention, I assume this is on the cost options list! ;) Is it something I am going to need to invest in in the longer term?

I decided to go ahead and use these servos as they are easy to get gears for unlike the interglactic backorder the E-F DS75 servos are experiencing.

I can feel your pain on that one! It does also seem to appear that this upgrade is the standard choice for many experience B400 pilots so it is good to know when I get to that there will be plenty of people who have done it before! :thumbup:

Also, Ted, it sounds like the BEC is overloaded on that ESC. That would explain it getting hot just sitting there powered on. As others suggested you may have a defective servo (or two, or three....)

Could this be due to the potential binding and tail servo issues other people have mentioned?

Thanks for your reply Tw, enjoy flying that beautiful bird.

from what i am seeing you need to check if the servos are pluged into the correct channel, or it may be possible you have a mode 1 controller (euro version with thottle on the right stick) or someone that might have tried to set it up this way with a mode 2(thottle on the left stick). one more thought i know replacing gears in servos is the inexpensive way each time you crash but in the long run replacing with servos that "won't" strip when you crash is in the long run cheaper if you are going to replace later anyway. it will save all those stock gear sets/servos you buy while you are crashing/learning

Hi notreallyme. Throttle is definately on the left stick. I have adjusted the swash in the DX6i to the correct setting (is was on 90degree) and will take some new images of the movements this evening or tomorrow.

Regarding the gears, what servos are you running and what are the gears made of? What is the material most resistant to newb errors (I'm mostly thinking of tail blades digging in)?

Thanks for your reply man. :)

Take care all. :thumbup:

Ted

[notreallyme]

i havn't had an issue with tail servo so it is stock along with gyro, but the three for the swash when stock trashed gears everytime i had a blade strike so i replaced with hitech hs-65mg http://www.hitecrcd.com/servos/show?name=HS-65MG. the mg is for metal gears they can take a beating. now for the radio stuff, after the new pics there may be a different answer but before it looked like the swash wasn't moving with the throttle like it should, maybe check if the pitch curves are correct.

[Twmaster]

Better yet are the HS-65HB servos. Karbonite gear set. More than strong enough and $10 per servo less in price.

[ted_wears_a_hat]

I will definately have a look into both notreallyme and Twmaster. Thanks for the tips.

Well I finally got round to finishing most of my list but no time left for playing with Vera (ooh err), had to get out and all that. When we got back this evening though I did manage to play with the sim and finally got everything set up with the DX6i. Strangely the model type needs to be an acro plane rather than a heli but once I'd sussed that it's all good. I had to play a little with the Clearview setup to get all the controls working OK but it's all done now!

Clearview setup:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=630&pictureid=4452

I have been playing with the B400 but it is very twitchy on Clearview so I am going to work up to it. Any Clearview using B400 owners who can verify the likeness? On the opposite end of the spectrum the Trex450 marked as 'easy' seems too stable. Does any model in there accurately represent the B400?

I will continue persevering!

Have a restful Sunday all.

[Twmaster]

Annoyingly I was expected a delivery today of a couple of servo's for a twister 3D that are rumoured to fit (and provide essentially exactly the same spec as the e-flite servo, same torque, speed, size etc). The plan was to fit one of these and examine the gears in the other (they are dirt cheap so I'm not to concerned about them being top of the line). Though they might not be the best solution for the long term they give me the opportunity to play around with set up with a fully working bird.

Whatever you do make sure you use exactly the same three servos on the cyclic/collective. It is imperative that all three servos function in exactly the same manner or all hell could break loose and make an unflyable bird.

The gyro is still in standard mode. In the future if I do an upgrade to a servo that can handle digital is the stock gyro OK?

Yup. I am using the stock gyro with the Spektrum DSP75 servo I got. The gyro will be set to digital and the servo has been programmed for digital 'tail'. (more on this servo below)



Hey Twmaster! Looks like a sweet job you've done. First photo looks like nothing more than a kit! Nice work man. Is see you have changed the blades and is that a different canopy too? Looks a little more spacious than mine!

Good to hear it has been a good heli to work on as I expect this is going to absorb a good number of ours of my newb mind!

Yes the blades are Align 325MM fiberglass. The canopy is for a Trex 450 SE V1. Fits very well IMHO.

The thing was hurt badly by it's previous owner. As pointed out B400 parts are easy to get and reasonably priced so resurrection was simple and cheap.

What does the programmable functions allow you to do (excuse me if this is a totally dumb question!)? The programming box you mention, I assume this is on the cost options list! ;) Is it something I am going to need to invest in in the longer term?

The programming box is a must if you are going with the Spektrum programmable servos. These little servos can be set for airplane, heli or tail functions. You can also change the travel direction of the servo via the box. IIRC it was $25 at my LHS

Could this be due to the potential binding and tail servo issues other people have mentioned?

Yes the BEC could be getting clobbered by the servos binding. From what I can tell the stock ESC is a marginal quality item and may drop dead on you unannounced.

Thanks for your reply Tw, enjoy flying that beautiful bird.

Thanks for the kind words. I hope she flies well. She also has a name. Trixie.

[ted_wears_a_hat]

Thanks for the advice Twmaster. Sounds like Hitec for the collective and Specktrum for the tail is the way to go in the future for upgrades. I'll have to do some research re: the programming box and pick that up when the time comes to upgrade.

The canopy is for a Trex 450 SE V1. Fits very well IMHO.

Certainly looks like a good fit. I find the canopy on the blade has been a pain to get on off for storage and I can't see it being any easier in the field, fully loaded with battery.

Yes the BEC could be getting clobbered by the servos binding. From what I can tell the stock ESC is a marginal quality item and may drop dead on you unannounced.

I'll have to keep an eye on that, it seems to be running just warm now the tail servo has been entirely removed. There is still a mild electronic hum coming from the front servo after an input but nothing too scary I don't think.

Trixie.

With a name like that she needs an emblem like:

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=634&pictureid=4474

:YeaBaby:

Take care man.

So got a bit of time to play with the collective servos and reset the tx to standard and I think everything is now moving the right way. My camera died after doing images for the left stick but looking at the way everything moves I think it is right. When the batteries are charged I'll re-check and take images if I am unsure.

Vera - Collective at mid stick, cyclic at mid stick

From the tail fin side:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4464

Closer:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4465

Blade side:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4466

Swash detail:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4467

Vera - Collective at low stick, cyclic at mid stick

Fin side:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4468

Fin side, servo detail:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4469

Tail blade side, swash detail:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4470

Vera - Collective at full stick, cyclic at mid stick

Fin side:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4471

Fin side, swash detail:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4472

Tail blade side:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=620&pictureid=4473

I also managed to get in some time on Clearview and it's me not the B400 model that is twitchy!! :YeaBaby: I'm slowly getting there. Found by the end of my session I could spent a minute or 2 in a fairly controlled hover, with a steadyish tail and then land without breaking anything.

It's definately going to take some time but it is nice to feel that at this early point of a steep learning curve the progress is actually tangible.

I hope everyone is having a great weekend. :thumbup:

Ted.