View Full Version : Another new member of the turbine community
08-29-2005, 03:03 PM
Well....I guess its time that we jump into the frey and start a dialog going. We are a father and son team that has just taken delivery of a brand new Bergen Intrepid Turbine; one of Bergen's pre-production orders. We are newbees to both the turbine world and Helifreak; so, we want to introduce ourselves, share our experiences with you, and ask lots of questions during the building and flying of this bird.
We already fly a Bergen Intrepid Gasser. It is the quality of this bird, and all that we have read about Wren, that convinced us that this was the combination that we wanted as an introduction to the turbine world.
At this time we are still unpacking the box, going thru the documentation, and filling out the inventory check list. However, we can give you a first impression. The quality of the documentation and organization of the kit appears very comprehensive; I don't think we are going to have any real problems putting this bird together. We were a little nervous buying a prototype product; but those fears have been totally dispelled by the quality of what we have received. The Wren turbine came totally assembled; it was bench tested before shipping. The guy in the attached photo, holding the turbine engine, is one happy dude!
We will be flying this bird using JR's 10x transmitter and 9 channel PCM receiver. We would like to hear recommendations on which servos and gyro to used.
Garren and Gary
08-29-2005, 03:16 PM
YEAH BABY! You are going to LOVE IT!!!! In the last 2 events I have been too with mine...IRCHA and the Rochester, NY event this past weekend...I have flown the Bergen Turbine 24 flights, the Bergen 90 4 flights, the Bergen Gasser 1 flight and my Zealous II turbine 4 flights....
Can you tell which one I am enjoying the most right now!!! I keep getting told I am getting comfortable (and ballsy) with it...(might have something to do with a couple of stationary flips about 5 feet off the deck this past weekend at Rochester :D)
I think it flies just like the gasser...Alan Szabo wrung it out this past weekend and said the same thing..."flies just like gassers that I have flown" :noteworthy :noteworthy Thanks Alan!!!!
Keep us posted on the build! If you have any questions on the build or set up feel free to ask any of us...Chris, Gary or myself...
08-30-2005, 05:29 AM
Garren and Gary,
OUTSTANDING and welcome aboard. You picked two winners with the Wren and Bergen right off the bat!
You mentioned servos and gyros. I can most whole-heartedly recommend the JR 8611's. I am using them on my BK-117 project since they are capable of generating "stump-pulling torque." On my Wren powered TurBen, I am currently using Futaba 9252's and, to date, have had no issues with them on the jet. Gyros, for the most part, are a matter of personal preference. I am using a Futaba GY601 on my TurBen and plan on using either a 601 or 401 on the BK. Any of these combinations should work well on your Bergen.
As you hit the road to turbine-land, please do not hesitate to ask any and all questions. Greg, Chris, and Gary all have Bergen backgrounds and huge amounts of experience and me, I just know a little bit about turbines...just enough to know when to ask questions or get myself into trouble.
Also, it is terrific to see a Father/Son Team coming into the turbine community...that's what it's all about.
08-30-2005, 02:45 PM
Garren & Gary,
I am new to the turbine side as well. I have been flying a Jetcopter SX for a little over a month until Saturday. The belt broke on my JetCat starting a string of events I had no control over. The only things worth saving are the radio electronics. Everything else is basically shot. The one thing I wished I had done different was, not buy used, and went with the Wren. I'm going to regroup and build a scale machine based around the Wren turbine. Good luck with your Bergen.
08-30-2005, 04:43 PM
We read about your plight with great sadness. We hope this experience doesn't sour you on turbines. We've lost count on the number of helis we've wacked, sometimes due to pilot error, but often due to neglect to carefully check the bird over before flying. You can believe we are being very careful and methodical with our new baby.
With a project of this magnitude we wanted to be sure we were buying the best available in quality and technology; even to the point of first buying a Bergen Intrepid Gasser and checking it over before making the decision. We feel our selection was a good one. The Wren turbine is a thing of beauty! It came fully assembled and bench tested by Bergen; and their documentation on the assembly and running of the bird is excellent. We're locatated in a remote area where virtually no local support is available. We're really on our own, except for what support is available thru Helifreak and RunRyder (and, of course, Bergen); and we really value that support.
On buying used equipment: That really is a buyer beware experience. We are progressing into aerobatics, so we purchased some 30/50 sized used birds over ebay, to be able to practice with a "beaters". Although the pictures and descriptions on ebay were pretty much the same, the quality of what we got ranged from excellent to absolute junk.
Wolfdad and Greg: Thanks for your advice
Garren and Gary
08-30-2005, 10:25 PM
Garren and Gary
Let me thank you for choosing the Bergen Turbine I beleive you will find it to be a work of art. Between the Bergen mechanics and the Wren turbine drivetrain you have some fine workmanship. I realy enjoyed building the first one and doing the R&D, I still fly mine on a regular basis and seem to enjoy it more and more. If you have any questions on the build you are in the wright place Greg, Chris and myself are frequently on the site as well as Wolfdad ( don't let him kid you about knowing a little about turbines) he is a wealth of knowledge himself. Enjoy the build.
09-13-2005, 11:20 AM
Kinda' been dead here in this here forum for the last couple of days.
I am curious and very interested about how the Father/Son (Garren and Gary) are getting along with the new Bergen turbine and how things have worked out with Gary O since the unfortunate mishap.
Obviously, a lot of other things are keeping folks busy, what with the horrendous situation in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama from Katrina and the good old "back to school" stuff, however when y'all get the chance, let us know how things are going.
Me, I've been grounded (turbine-wise) since my Delaware gearbox fiasco, however thank goodness for my old stand-by Vigors and the YS engine installations (what a combination!).
Looks like the first new Bailey gearbox/second stage combination should arrive within the next couple of days and the TurBen should be back in the air, hopefully in time to go to Blacksheep this weekend. However and, if not, for sure down at Virginia Beach next month. :noteworthy
09-17-2005, 09:39 PM
Thanks for asking. We are progressing well in the assembly of the intrepid. Thought we would have many more questions, but Bergen instructions and documentation is very comprehensive; so, no problems so far. At this time we have all supporting equipment either on hand or on the way (Batteries, servos, turbine oil, etc). We think the real questions will start to generate as we approach completion and get ready for startup; particularily FADEC programming and default settings for the GY601. For example, the documentation does not seem to cover recommentations for the FADEC target gas turbine rotor speed for the recommended rotor head speed.
We have not yet purchased a fuel container. We are planning on using plain kerosene, available from the local fuel oil depot, used for space heaters (clear, without the color dye added), rather than Jet-A. The plan was to pour the kerosene through a drip-type coffee filter into the fuel container, before pumping it into the bird. Does this sound acceptable? What kind of fuel container do you use, or recommend.
We must admit that we have not been totally dedicated to the construction of this bird at this time. Here on the west coast of Oregon we have a very long and wet rainey season, starting about mid October, carrying on to about the following mid-June. Its very difficult to sit inside doing modelling work with that beautiful flying weather outside! We are gulity, we've been out flying!
Garren and Gary
09-24-2005, 07:44 PM
Garren and Gary,
Absolutely fantastic to hear from you again and glad to hear your Intrepid is coming along so nicely. I gotta' share a little secret here and that is, there's going to be an addition to our family....I also purchased a new Bergen turbine during the past week (see, I had you all going). As soon as I get my second Bailey gearbox and second stage back from the UK, it will be shipped off to Chris for installation. The Bergen will be my third turbine-powered aircraft so you can well understand that the "bug" has bitten me badly.
On fuel containers (and, I apologize for not getting back to you sooner), the Jersey Modeler fueler is about the best and most rugged available. You can go for either the hand-pumped version or the electric. Also, and quite honestly, you won't really need to go through the trouble of straining your fuel, although I most certainly will not discourage you in doing so. What I have found, in our area is that the quality variations are pretty wide and, I think that is area dependent. In areas where 1-K is used frequently for heating purposes, the kero does not sit in the tanks for long periods of time, whereas in our area, it does. That having been said, if you are opting to burn kerosene, just be a bit more judicious about checking your filters frequently The Jersey Modeler line of fuelers, both electric and manual, all come with inline filters. That, in addition to your onboard Wren filter should keep you running clean.
Hell yes! Were I in your shoes, I would be out flying too...and was! We returned from just a super time with Will and the folks down at Blacksheep last weekend and are already looking forward to visiting with Zak, Robert and the folks down at Fentress in early October.
Keep us posted on your progress and, by all means, when you get some time, post some pics.
09-25-2005, 06:59 AM
Gary O, sorry I missed seeing about your crash. That sucks! I know very well what you mean about buying used, I bought every heli I ever had used up until this year when I started trying to only buy new. You know first hand why I finally got smart about buying used.
Garren and Gary, thaqt is GREAT that you are doing a father and son project like this. IMHO you chose the right heli/turbine package, as I have seen pretty much al of them and seen people flying them and the Bergen seems to be the BEST combination going. Please keep us informed on how everything goes!! Can't wait to do heli projjectw with my son who is almost 5!!
Doc, VERY glad to hear you got a new project and I look forward to flying with you guys again soon!! Hope to see you at IRCHA SE!!
09-25-2005, 08:03 AM
Garren and Gary, I'm glad tosee you coming along with the Bergen. You will love it once you start flying it. I had a fantastic time with mine at the Southwest event, even though I was running around like a nut trying to get the event running on an even keel. Chris and I had a ball with them. Also it was kind of fun to see Chris enter the auto contest with his, I am not sure but it might be the first time I have seen a turbine in an auto contest.
Doc, I can't wait until yours is done it should be a blast for you,congratulations!!!
I am out on the road again at another fun fly and upon getting home I will be ordering another turbine set up from Sara so I know of the bug. Should be a great time at IRCHA JAMBOREE this coming year. If everybody gets them going we will have to all hook up and put that certain aroma in the air.
09-25-2005, 10:49 AM
We were relieved to find out that, at least for the initial startup and running of the turbine, no programming of the FADEC is required; that was all done by Bergen during the bench testing at the factory. It appears that all we need to do is program the xmtr throttle curve correctly (as instructed) and go through the instructed startup sequence. Is it really going to be that simple? Any comments?
We are planning on doing the initial engine startup in the fully assembled bird, ready to fly. We had thought about clamping the skids to a portable workbench, for the initial running, but read some negative comments on that approach. Besides, we've launched all of our other birds using this approach without any problems. There should not be any surprises if the bird is properly setup, initially, on the bench.
Doc, we agree; Jersey Modeller appears to be the best fuel container package available. We've bought a 2-gallon hand pumped version. Your comments on kerosene setting in storage for long periods is appreciated. We are just approaching the heating season; no doubt the local kerosene supply has been setting in storage all summer. I think we'll go the "belt and suspender" approach and at least filter the initial batch using the coffee filter.
On the subject of AMA's turbine waver: According to AMA's registry, no turbine wavers have been issued in the State of Oregon. Initially we had not planned on making application for a waver because we are in a very remote area, we do not plan any contest flying or public demonstrations, will only be flying in areas where the risk of property damage is low, and because of the difficulty of obtaining signatures. However, as a matter of pride, we would like to have the waver. Is it possible that we could fully document an engine startup, takeoff, flying and landing of the heli, and engine shutdown on a video DVD and obtain a waver holder's signature by proxy?
Garren and Gary
09-26-2005, 08:26 AM
The waiver must be wittnessed by two cd's one of which must be on the approved list. I have not seen or heard of one being done by proxy. I will find out if it can be done and get back with you. What part of Oregon are you in? I am in Utah, not to far from you and have done alot of waivers in the northwest. We should be able to figure something out.
09-26-2005, 10:58 AM
Garren and Gary,
I think Gary Travis can probably get you all set up on your turbine waiver. The flights do not have to be done with the turbine and can be done with a .60 or larger nitro bird.
I would strongly recommend the waiver as soon as you can conveniently work it out for a couple of reasons, the biggest being AMA insurance coverage should something happen and, the second being that, if you want to participate in an AMA sanctioned event, you will need the turbine waiver to participate with the turbine.
Sounds like you all are off and running with the Bergen!