Help !!! Raptor 30 Auto / Setup

[jakesvdm]

Hi, I am new to auto's and I have read almost every doc I could find about doing auto's on the net. I have also watched the video where Finless auto's his t-rex 450. I have noticed that most of those doc's are more focused on bigger heli's (i.e. not 30's). I have also done some auto's with a friends 50 (T-Rex 600N). No problem.

What I do with the 50 is I take it straight up to about three stories high (maybe higher), flip the hold switch, give it -10 on the pitch and at about 2m high, I start to slow the descend with some pitch, and set it down nicely. One after the other. It does come down fast, and it comes straight down, no forward speed. I also know that all the documentation that I have read on auto's tell you to start in to the wind with some forward speed, but with this 50 we haven't done that and the auto's were nice.

I do exactly the same with my Raptor 30 (in fact, we have done all of this today, the 50 and 30), except that I only have -8 degrees pitch, BUT, my 30 falls like a rock, but instead of settling down nicely, it basically "crashes" (hits the ground hard). And it almost seems like if I auto it straight down like the 50, it doesn't have enough head speed to stop / slow the descend to set it down safely. It took some hard knocks on these auto's (I mean straight down, as with the 50). In fact, I tried 3 times and felt that I am about to loose this heli if I don't stop right now.

My questions :
1.) what am I doing wrong ?
2.) Do I need more negative pitch for this ? Could someone suggest some pitch ranges ? Seems like Raptor Technique focuses more on 50's
3.) Is forward speed mandatory for a 30 ? It seems like the 50 can handle straight down auto's
4.) Could it be that I start with a too low head speed ?
5.) How high can I take the head speed with plastic head (stock TT parts that came in the box) ?
6.) If I get in to forward flight and then flip the hold switch, will I crash this heli or will I be able to flare and set it down nicely ?

This 30 scared me with these "drops" that it did. All the advice I get are always from experience with 50's, but no one can give me advice from experience with 30's

Please, don't refer me to a web site, please. I need some advice from fellow Freaks and there experience with Raptor 30's and how they auto.

My Setup - might or might not help :
Raptor 30 V2 with TT 39 Pro engine and stock TT exhaust (or muffler ?)
Plastic head and grips (this is what came in the box)
Carbon Blades. The blades weigh 240 grams (both of them together, i.e. 120 grams per blade)
I upgraded the auto gear so I have tail control during auto's
I have a GY 401 with S9254 on tail
Rest of servo's are analogue.
Basically, apart from the tail drive pulley for auto's, and carbon blades, the heli is stock.
The heli weighs 3.2 Kg fully equipped (except for the fuel - empty tank)


Please help. Thanks in advance

[jakesvdm]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I have the red ultra light weight fly bar paddles form TT on this heli. Don't know if it will / can influence this heli's auto capabilities ?

[BarracudaHockey]

http://www.ronlund.com/autos.htm

[liaan]

-2 -3 degrees for auto's more than enough.. even enough on mini titan.
the more negative you give, the less head speed you will have.
forward motion and bit of wind helps a lot as well.

i would suggest, take it very high.. put in hold, pull back collective and listen to blade speed, play around with collective to hear the head speed change, you will find optimum after few tries.

L:

[BarracudaHockey]

the more negative you give, the less head speed you will have.

Thats simply not true


forward motion and bit of wind helps a lot as well.

i would suggest, take it very high.. put in hold, pull back collective and listen to blade speed, play around with collective to hear the head speed change, you will find optimum after few tries.

L:
That is correct.

[Funky]

I fly a Raptor 30 and have autoed it a lot. Let me see if I can help...

1. You are autoing straight up and down. Get some forward speed and it autos quite well
2. You don't need a lot. It depends on how high you go and how fast you want it to come down. I run 10 1/2 degrees pos/neg pitch but I rarely use it all unless I start an auto VERY high and want to drop fast to a more acceptable altitude before setting up the approach/flare
3. For a good auto, yes. For a poor auto, no
4. Headspeed doesn't matter once you get above a certain point. With the correct approach you can use a low headspeed and still auto it without problems
5. I wouldn't go above 1900
6. It will set down nicely with forward flight although its not going to auto itself. You still need the proper collective/cyclic management throughout the auto. I often ride my autos out as far as it can go in forward flight just for fun and it can go pretty far just skimming the ground after descending so the 30 has plenty of inertia to work with

[FlyJ]

Until very recently i was flying at 1950 with a plastic head and had about 100 flights like that with no problem. I just thought it was time to go metal since i was progressing more and needed a better head.

[jakesvdm]

Guys, thanks for the help.

Funky,
if you don't mind, I have some more questions. First of all, do you have to do any modifications to be able to get 10 1/2 degrees pos / neg ? I seem to get about 10 pos and 8 or so neg. Also, are you saying that I won't be able to do a straight down auto ? (like with the 50) Or do i just need a LOT more skill ? Can you perhaps post me your pitch and throttle curves ? Are you using the TT39 ?

[Funky]

I didn't do any mods to the head, it is just stock. I did use the inner hole on the collective arm so I could get a little more pitch. I also had to use a longer servo arm on the collective and slightly increase the servo travel in my radio.

Straight down autos just don't work nearly as well. You can get them to work, but its SO much easier with a little forward flight. If you do them straight up and down, there is not much room at all for error. With forward flight, you have plenty of opportunities to correct any problems you hit along the way.

My pitch curves are just straight linear curves and my throttle curve is 100,inh,66,inh,100. I am running a very old worn out OS32 though, you'll have to find a throttle curve appropriate for your motor.

Here is a vid of my 30 doing autos last summer. As you can see in the beginning, I am trying to ride out the autos as far as I can. You can see how much energy is still left in the heli after I am close to the ground. The 2nd half of the video is just normal approaches without all of the fooling around in the first part of the vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1rwKRF0mEY

[jakesvdm]

Thanks for the help. Just one more question. If I keep my plastic head block (the standard one that came in the kit) and I just replace the blade grips with metal ones, can I then push up the head speed to say 2000 rpm ? (with carbon fibre blades of course)

[BarracudaHockey]

The head block is more important than the grips. The head block will take the head speed but its important to keep an eye on it, it will get to where it wobbles, pivoting on the jesus bolt, when you get play in it replace it.